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Exalted: Essence

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  • I really hope that they will have a finished draft for this when the KS goes live. This time around I want to see what I get before commiting big amounts of money to it. Although after all that has been said here, I'm sadly not sure that I'm the target audience for this kind of "light" Exalted version
    But I'll take a look if KS pledges get you a draft and you can unpledge if you don't like what you see.

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    • All the previous kickstarters have had a finished draft. Though I don't think they let you uncommit if you don't like it.


      I play...
      Kovan, actor, librarian, sorcerer, great bear, Lunar Elder from the First Age
      Thutmose-Osiris, seventh son of a seventh son, descendant of the Supreme Deity Sukhmet, renegade demigod and bearer of the Ghoul-Banishing Bow. Also bright green.

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      • Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
        All the previous kickstarters have had a finished draft.
        No, they didn't. The Corebook didn't even have any serious snippets of the product.

        Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
        Though I don't think they let you uncommit if you don't like it.
        That's normally a KS thing. You can cancel your pledge until the last moment of the duration of the KS. So I don't think OPP can change that. So if they have a draft, I'll probably pledge to see if I like it.

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        • Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
          So in Essence attributes are being condensed. Monica said "Dexterity is not a god stat. Or even a thing."

          Also, we will not see Getimians' attributes in Essence. I assume this is because the attributes are so different.

          Neall said "Monica has come up with a truly elegant way to represent Attribute Exalted."


          So here's a couple of radical theories:
          A)There's only 3-5 attributes.*
          B)Attribute Exalted are radically different. But they are not ability exalts.**


          *(I'd suggest 3-6, but if there was 6 I think you'd still do Attribute Exalted the same way as usual, just reduced a bit. Ie Full Moons choose 2 favoured attributes, 1 of which must be Brawn or Agility. Jade Castes choose 2 favoured attributes, one of which must be Brawn or Charisma. Winter Caste choose 2 favoured attributes, 1 of which must be Manipulation or Cunning. Etc. And I don't really see the point of reducing attributes to 7 or 8.)

          **So my first thought was they were just all Ability exalts now. You know, Full Moons get Athletics, Brawl, Dodge, Resistance, Survival. But I don't think it is that, simply because I would not really describe that as truly elegant! There'd be a lot of debate over what abilities to give them.

          So, I think in some ways it's easy to do Attribute-based stuff. Excellencies are easy (you get less but they apply to attributes rather than abilities). Character gen is easy, giving them more dots of attributes and less abilities (not what 3rd ed did with Lunars, but what previous eds did). Their own unique charms are fine, because you just put them in attribute trees.
          The hard bit is buying Universal charms (and this would apply even if the attributes were the same). What stat do you need to buy that Survival charm that is about resisting environmental damage? Stamina. But then that other Survival charm for making friends with animals isn't Stamina. Keywords? Seems awkward.
          You could of course have every single charm have prerequisites like "Resistance 3/Stamina 3". Then it's mostly just awkward in terms of book layout. (With a lot less charm trees, it's not really so awkward that half the Survival charms are Stamina and the other are Wits or whatever.)

          Here's something else: Does Essence have favoured charms at all? If not, how does it Dawnify your Dawn? Because if it instead gives you bonus abilities or charms at character gen, say, then it'd be easy to instead say "Full Moons get +1 to their Physical Attribute" or some such. Though that might apply better to Lunars than Alchemicals, Liminals, etc.

          Discuss!
          Here's some crazy speculation based on definitely not enough data :

          Attributes/Abilities wild speculation:
          -There are 5 Attributes, one for each of the 5 Solar Archetypes (so Dawniness, Zenithness, Twilightiness, Nightiness and Eclipseness, though obviously with better names)

          -Each Ability is tied to 1 and only 1 Attribute, so e.g. Melee is always associated with the Dawn's Attribute and Craft is always associated with the Twilight Attribtue. The reshuffling of Abilities in Essence helps with this by redefining or separating Abilities which would be ambiguous right now in Core.

          -Therefore, even though everyone is treated as Ability-based in Essence (per word of dev), it's clear which Attribute you'd need as an Attribute Exalt to buy Charms in a given Ability (for instance, if a Charm requires 2 dots of Melee, then you know an Attribute-based Exalt could buy it with 2 dots of "Dawn"). Hence the dev comment that Attribute Exalts can be turned on and off "like a switch" in Essence.

          Supernal wild speculation:
          -Your "Supernal" is an Attribute you pick among the 5 Attributes. Your Supernal determines your "archetype" in the player group (so someone picks the warrior attribute, someone else picks the scholar attribute, etc.). That way everyone's role is clearly established from the start.

          -Some Castes and Aspects are only associated with 1 Archetype so people will always pick the same Supernal for them (e.g. almost all Dawn players will Supernal the Dawn Attribute since it's the obvious choice). Others Castes/Aspects are more Ambiguous, so e.g. a Changing Moon might want to Supernal their Zenith-Attribute, their Night-Attribute or their Eclipse-Attribute.

          -Even with all that speculation it's not obvious to me what the benefit of Supernal will be. We know Supernal in Essence will work differently from Supernal in Core, but beyond that it could be anything. Maybe it simply tells you which Abilities you favor for Charm costs?

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          • Originally posted by Mnemon Liranan View Post
            No, they didn't. The Corebook didn't even have any serious snippets of the product..
            Early 3e was a mess, they changed up the dev team and have been doing better since. Every KS since then has had a manuscript preview.

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            • Originally posted by Mnemon Liranan View Post

              No, they didn't. The Corebook didn't even have any serious snippets of the product.
              Sorry, I should have said the current developers (who took over after the Core and Miracles) have had a draft for each Kickstarter.


              That's normally a KS thing. You can cancel your pledge until the last moment of the duration of the KS. So I don't think OPP can change that. So if they have a draft, I'll probably pledge to see if I like it.
              Ah, sure. In the previous kickstarters, they've released the draft a quarter at a time per week.


              I play...
              Kovan, actor, librarian, sorcerer, great bear, Lunar Elder from the First Age
              Thutmose-Osiris, seventh son of a seventh son, descendant of the Supreme Deity Sukhmet, renegade demigod and bearer of the Ghoul-Banishing Bow. Also bright green.

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              • Having a draft for Kickstarters now is, to the best of my knowledge, official Onyx Path policy, specifically because of the uproar surrounding the Ex3 core KS.

                Comment


                • Yeah, they know that did not go down well.


                  I play...
                  Kovan, actor, librarian, sorcerer, great bear, Lunar Elder from the First Age
                  Thutmose-Osiris, seventh son of a seventh son, descendant of the Supreme Deity Sukhmet, renegade demigod and bearer of the Ghoul-Banishing Bow. Also bright green.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by GhanjRho View Post
                    Having a draft for Kickstarters now is, to the best of my knowledge, official Onyx Path policy, specifically because of the uproar surrounding the Ex3 core KS.
                    There have been exceptions, such as Dark Eras 2, but I think that was at least partly because the KS involved deciding what would go in the book.


                    Scion 2E: What We Know - A wiki compiling info on second edition Scion.

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                    • Originally posted by Epitome View Post
                      Early 3e was a mess, they changed up the dev team and have been doing better since. Every KS since then has had a manuscript preview.
                      This is less Exalted itself and more early OPP KS in general. Mummy: the Curse and I think a couple other books didn't either and had similar issues. A lot of also what delayed and made some things weird in the Exalted corebook were things like backer rewards (which they dind't know if they were even getting) being put in the corebook, rather than a companion like later KSes do.

                      Like for some fun context,the Trinity Continuum and Scion 2e cores were supposed to also releas ein 2013, but didn't come out until a few years later. Likely the issues with Exalted kind of pathfound that issue, for better or worse I guess.


                      And stuff.
                      My DeviantArt Page // My tumblr // Exalted 3e Houserules

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                      • Originally posted by Blaque View Post

                        This is less Exalted itself and more early OPP KS in general. Mummy: the Curse and I think a couple other books didn't either and had similar issues. A lot of also what delayed and made some things weird in the Exalted corebook were things like backer rewards (which they dind't know if they were even getting) being put in the corebook, rather than a companion like later KSes do.

                        Like for some fun context,the Trinity Continuum and Scion 2e cores were supposed to also releas ein 2013, but didn't come out until a few years later. Likely the issues with Exalted kind of pathfound that issue, for better or worse I guess.
                        the main thing that delayed the Core book was the fact that it clearly wasn’t really written yet despite what the old devs were saying at the time, and then both system redesigns and real life got in the way of getting it done. Now OPP always has full draft text to share in kickstarters. There are edits of course, and then there’s formatting and art to do, but they have the work to show us so we know it’s real and well underway, and you can even start using it at your table immediately.


                        Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

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                        • Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                          All the previous kickstarters have had a finished draft. Though I don't think they let you uncommit if you don't like it.
                          of course they do! OPP eagerly encourages people to make nominal backing to check the draft out and pull out if they don’t like it. Even if they didn’t want to do that, it’s not like they could change how Kickstarter works.


                          Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

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                          • Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post

                            the main thing that delayed the Core book was the fact that it clearly wasn’t really written yet despite what the old devs were saying at the time, and then both system redesigns and real life got in the way of getting it done. Now OPP always has full draft text to share in kickstarters. There are edits of course, and then there’s formatting and art to do, but they have the work to show us so we know it’s real and well underway, and you can even start using it at your table immediately.
                            It also spent like a year in layout/art. Thing had a whole cascade going on on things.


                            And stuff.
                            My DeviantArt Page // My tumblr // Exalted 3e Houserules

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                            • Originally posted by Blaque View Post

                              This is less Exalted itself and more early OPP KS in general. Mummy: the Curse and I think a couple other books didn't either and had similar issues. A lot of also what delayed and made some things weird in the Exalted corebook were things like backer rewards (which they dind't know if they were even getting) being put in the corebook, rather than a companion like later KSes do.

                              Like for some fun context,the Trinity Continuum and Scion 2e cores were supposed to also releas ein 2013, but didn't come out until a few years later. Likely the issues with Exalted kind of pathfound that issue, for better or worse I guess.
                              I don't remember Mummy the Curse really having that issue.


                              “As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” noun: empathy the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.

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                              • Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                                Does Essence have favoured charms at all? If not, how does it Dawnify your Dawn? Because if it instead gives you bonus abilities or charms at character gen, say, then it'd be easy to instead say "Full Moons get +1 to their Physical Attribute" or some such. Though that might apply better to Lunars than Alchemicals, Liminals, etc.
                                I don't see why Essence would need to drop Caste/Favored Abilities, but if it did, Caste-specific anima powers could be enough to distinguish a Dawn from other Solars.

                                Heck, right now in Third Edition, other Solars can't get anything like Dawn Caste anima powers without using artifacts or sorcerous workings.


                                Originally posted by Epitome View Post
                                Attributes/Abilities wild speculation:
                                -There are 5 Attributes, one for each of the 5 Solar Archetypes (so Dawniness, Zenithness, Twilightiness, Nightiness and Eclipseness, though obviously with better names)
                                So, what?

                                Strength for Dawns, Stamina for Zeniths, Intelligence for Twilights, Perception or Wits for Nights, and Charisma for Eclipses?

                                It would just be easier to have Strength, Intelligence, and Charisma, and have none of them associated with a Caste. Each Caste has their own uses for each Attribute, what with Dawns being generals, Zeniths being public figures, and Eclipses needing to figure out air-tight legal documents.


                                -Therefore, even though everyone is treated as Ability-based in Essence (per word of dev), it's clear which Attribute you'd need as an Attribute Exalt to buy Charms in a given Ability (for instance, if a Charm requires 2 dots of Melee, then you know an Attribute-based Exalt could buy it with 2 dots of "Dawn"). Hence the dev comment that Attribute Exalts can be turned on and off "like a switch" in Essence.
                                If the relationship between Attributes and Abilities is so one-to-one, why even have Attributes at all?

                                You could just assume that whatever muscle groups you use to swing your sword are developed as part of your Melee Ability, and that those muscle groups are generally not the ones you need for Athletics. Which is pretty much how reality works, anyway.


                                Supernal wild speculation:
                                -Your "Supernal" is an Attribute you pick among the 5 Attributes.
                                Pretty sure we're told that Supernals don't exist in Essence, and that the Solar Exalt Advantages more than cover the essential concept of "Master of Abilities" and "First Among Equals".


                                Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

                                My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

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