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  • #16
    Originally posted by Reminiscent Oasis View Post

    Bad in what way? Overpowered, underpowered, inconsistent or drab themes?

    Mostly underpowered. Moonlit Huntress, for example, has only a single evocation. That would be okay if it was only the first evocation, and a whole chain built off from there, but as an example, just one evocation is rather unimpressive. Also, it's Essence 2, and I strongly feel that basically every artifact should have at least a couple Essence 1 evocations so that an owner can start unlocking their power right away.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Reminiscent Oasis View Post

      Bad in what way? Overpowered, underpowered, inconsistent or drab themes?
      Most are extremely underpowered and poorly written, some are extremely overpowered. When all an Evocation does is add +1 soak to the armor... yeah. I don't think that's gonna be worth your 10 XP.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Reminiscent Oasis View Post
        Overpowered, underpowered, inconsistent or drab themes?
        All of these.

        Some of them are okay. But they don't quite work the way later ones do (the rules got kind of changed a bit), they're generally less interesting, and the Moonsilver Powerbow is really OP.


        I play...
        Kovan, actor, librarian, sorcerer, great bear, Lunar Elder from the First Age
        Thutmose-Osiris, seventh son of a seventh son, descendant of the Supreme Deity Sukhmet, renegade demigod and bearer of the Ghoul-Banishing Bow. Also bright green.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
          [...]the Moonsilver Powerbow is really OP.
          Ironically, the moonsilver powerbow, Moonlit Huntress, is the one I was referencing when I mentioned it was underpowered, having only one evocation. But having just re-read that one evocation... yeah, it's way too good. It's kind of impressive, really - Moonlit Huntress manages to combine both being way overpowered, and not powerful enough!

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post

            Ironically, the moonsilver powerbow, Moonlit Huntress, is the one I was referencing when I mentioned it was underpowered, having only one evocation. But having just re-read that one evocation... yeah, it's way too good. It's kind of impressive, really - Moonlit Huntress manages to combine both being way overpowered, and not powerful enough!

            Not all that powerful in my opinion, but our version of Moonlit Huntress has additional evocations based upon the Exalt that is attuned to it currently. Which is the nice thing about Evocations... an artifact may have completely different evocations based upon the nature and character of the one who is attuned and uses it.


            The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary. - James. D. Nicoll

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Tymeaus Jalynsfein View Post


              Not all that powerful in my opinion, but our version of Moonlit Huntress has additional evocations based upon the Exalt that is attuned to it currently. Which is the nice thing about Evocations... an artifact may have completely different evocations based upon the nature and character of the one who is attuned and uses it.
              It is definitely OP to gain that amount of initiative and all those passive effects out of the blue for three turns. It's not EXCITING, but it's something that breaks combat as intended for sure.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Alistair View Post

                It is definitely OP to gain that amount of initiative and all those passive effects out of the blue for three turns. It's not EXCITING, but it's something that breaks combat as intended for sure.

                Not in our experience it hasn't... Once per day is exceptionally not all that powerful at all, and only for 15 initiative, especially without a reset condition. As for the Phase Bonuses... Nice, but again, not overly powerful in our experience... I accept others may have issue with it though.

                Hell, Single Point allows the ability to add additional Initiative to your own for a Decisive attack, for 1wp 1m, based upon the Difference between you and your victim.I have NEVER added less than 20 Initiative on such an activation, and sometimes as much as 30+.
                Last edited by Tymeaus Jalynsfein; 12-06-2019, 07:22 PM.


                The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary. - James. D. Nicoll

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Tymeaus Jalynsfein View Post
                  Not all that powerful in my opinion,
                  Well, as written, its evocation, at Essence 2, for no mote cost, just 1 wp, gives you +1 non-charm success to Stealth, +1 non-charm success to disengage, +2 non-charm successes to Awareness, another +3 successes to rush and disengage (these ones aren't non-charm, at least), and lets you Aim reflexively at up to long range. And it gives you +15 free initiative, and all this lasts for 3 turns. Sure, you can only use it once a day, but if you need to use that more than once to utterly annihilate most enemies, you're doing something wrong. That's the kind of power I'd expect to see in an Essence 5 capstone charm, if that.

                  Originally posted by Tymeaus Jalynsfein
                  Which is the nice thing about Evocations... an artifact may have completely different evocations based upon the nature and character of the one who is attuned and uses it.
                  Yeah, this is very true - if you don't like an evocation, you explicitly have leave to change it, and just say "this is the version of the evocation that your character unlocks". That said, I'm unhappy with Moonlit Huntress both because it's got a seriously overpowered evocation, and because, as an example, it kind of suggests that artifacts often have only a single evocation, which I don't think is the case.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post

                    Well, as written, its evocation, at Essence 2, for no mote cost, just 1 wp, gives you +1 non-charm success to Stealth, +1 non-charm success to disengage, +2 non-charm successes to Awareness, another +3 successes to rush and disengage (these ones aren't non-charm, at least), and lets you Aim reflexively at up to long range. And it gives you +15 free initiative, and all this lasts for 3 turns. Sure, you can only use it once a day, but if you need to use that more than once to utterly annihilate most enemies, you're doing something wrong. That's the kind of power I'd expect to see in an Essence 5 capstone charm, if that.
                    Except that you do not get 15 initiative per turn, and the other bonuses are not all that powerful in my experience... They are very nice, but not broken. You Activate the Evocation, Get +15 Initiative, that is immediately used if you make a Decisive attack, and then get a few bonuses for movement...Yippee Skip.

                    As for a Capstone Ability, Single Point has a far better ability in my opinion in a mid-range Charm.

                    Yeah, this is very true - if you don't like an evocation, you explicitly have leave to change it, and just say "this is the version of the evocation that your character unlocks". That said, I'm unhappy with Moonlit Huntress both because it's got a seriously overpowered evocation, and because, as an example, it kind of suggests that artifacts often have only a single evocation, which I don't think is the case.
                    I will allow that it may be a bad example... But Even sans Arms of the Chosen, I never believed that artifacts only ever came with a single evocation... I just assumed that whomever wrote that one up chose to leave a lot of leeway for the attuned character to create his own based upon his legend... Maybe I have been corrupted by Earthdawn in that way .


                    The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary. - James. D. Nicoll

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                    • #25
                      I'll try not to repost things people have already said

                      Originally posted by Reminiscent Oasis View Post
                      [*]What are the most significant setting changes between 2E and 3E that I should be aware of?
                      There's a ton of new interesting places, and also the power curve has been kind of meshed a bit, and flattened. So in 2e you could grab Essence 5 right off the hop, and it wasn't too hard to make your whatever Solar basically ignore anything as powerful as a DB and lower. Now that's a lot harder to do, and certain mortals, particularly in groups, can actually threaten Exalts. At the same time don't think that the epic side got cut though, there's a new enemy from Hundred Devil Night that's a literal mile high volcano behemoth. For the sake of imagining if it stood beside the Burj Khalifa the Burj would only come up to its waist.

                      Originally posted by Reminiscent Oasis View Post
                      [*]Are there anynotable rules that 3E novices like myself often overlook?
                      Well there's a lot of rules so, yes. The rules for Clashing often get overlooked at least partially, as well as Initiative Shift. Any system that you aren't familiar with, like disease or strategic warfare, if it crops up you'll probably miss something about it. Also no regenerating motes from stunts anymore, just everyone gets 5m back at the bottom of every round.

                      The new social system though, that's a big one and might require its own post. For starters you can not, no matter how many successes you roll, convince somebody to do something without exploiting a relevant intimacy.

                      Originally posted by Reminiscent Oasis View Post
                      [*]Are there any notable rules that 3E veterans deliberately ignore?
                      None that I can think of, but there's a few interpretations that aren't clarified that I use. One being that battlegroups of creatures with charms can use those charms as a battlegroup. There's also just some sensible restrictions you should put down, like no stacking multiple of the same hearthstone and stuff like that.

                      Originally posted by Reminiscent Oasis View Post
                      [*]What's essential reading for 3E? Right now I have the Core, Arms of the Chosen, Dragonblooded, The Realm, and the Lunar Manuscript. I noticed there seems to be a lot of Adversaries of the Righteous and Hundred Devils Night Parade pdfs on DriveThruRPG - any of those worth picking up, or is there a bundle of them somewhere? Anything else I should look into?
                      Adversaries and Hundred Devils Night are both really good. I broke down and bought almost all of them individually over a few months time. You might want to wait for the compiled book, but they're also just good fodder for games and Lunars will LOVE the shapes they offer. For example one of the antagonists isn't even really a creature, but a possessed house who you can either free from torment or slay the heart of.

                      There's still a bit of a problem, particularly with Solars/Lunars, where a lot of antagonists aren't quite powerful enough. Starting a battle with them could easily just leave your players rolling moteless attacks and defenses, winning effortlessly, and just regenerating motes because of it, which is the opposite of what you want. So just think carefully before using something like a flickerfeather.

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                      • #26
                        Be careful in chopping up a quoted post that includes a list - I've seen threads on this forum get messed up over it.

                        ​But to address the OP, many Charms introduce dice tricks that add a lot of "swing" to the game. A person stuck in a 2e mindset might expect to deliver a curb-stomp by dint of having four more dice than his opponent, but when she is packing double sevens on a roll, or every 10 he rolls gives her another die, or every 1 he rolls lets her steal a point of his Initiative, it turns out to not be as one-sided as he was expecting.
                        Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 12-06-2019, 10:26 PM.

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                        • #27
                          Xerxes did a really great read through of the entire book called "Not Quite a Newb's read through" I continually reference it to this day because of how easy it is to read through and get a feel for stuff, mostly charms.

                          A redditor called MadLetter made a great visual list of Solar charm trees broken down by ability. it's quite easy to read and something my players wish was in core. It really, really, helps you figure out where you are going with your characters.

                          I'm not sure if you're going to play a Solar or Lunar, so here's DeathKitty and Soak Monster two of the most utilitarian Lunar builds out there. Death Kitty has an excellency available for every roll and Soak Monster (aka Knight of Bone and Ivory) has a resting Soak of 27, higher than Octavian, Fakharu, or Ahlat. Seriously, I weep when I think of fighting that.


                          ..."But I've bought a big bat, I'm all ready you see. Now my troubles are going to have troubles with me"

                          Message me for Japanese translations.

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                          • #28
                            Battle Groups are a hybrid between 2e Extras and the old Mass Combat system and because of their dual role are a commonly misunderstood part of the system.

                            It's a feature that a small mob is normally far weaker than one person fighting solo, if you want them to outperform Storm Troopers they should really be paired with a character making command actions for them. Some Storytellers I've seen dispense with a character in favour directly manipulating traits, equipment and values like Size, Drill and Might to reflect the quality of leadership. This should be done with great care if the primary opponent is a faceless mass of troops it creates a very different type of encounter from what Ex3 is trying to do (due to not using initiative and gradually draining it away from everyone over the course of the fight) and if you overdo the battle group it's a potential bolivian army ending to your chronicle.


                            Onyx Path Forum Moderator
                            Please spare a thought for updating the Exalted wiki.

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                            • #29
                              Stunts are still being called one-point, two-point, and three-point in the books, but that's deceptive. I prefer to say first-, second-, and third-tier---or even minor, major, and defining Stunts.
                              A first-tier stunt gives you two dice on a roll, or one point on a static value like Defense or Resolve.
                              A second-tier stunt gives you two dice AND an automatic success AND 1 point of WP that can't exceed your regular WP cap (so often players just cash that in for another success) on a roll; on a static value, it adds two points.
                              A third-tier stunt gives you two dice AND two automatic successes AND 2 points of WP that can exceed your regular WP cap on a roll; on a static value, three points.
                              It can be tough to get out of the old "one die, two dice, three dice" stunt mindset, so it's good to keep this in mind.


                              Abyssals: Whom Death Has Called, a PEACH-as-heck attempt to make an Abyssal 3E holdover.

                              Where I try to make Artifacts. When I finish them I'll probably post them in the Artifact Workshop thread so people can help me hammer them into shape.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Beans View Post
                                Stunts are still being called one-point, two-point, and three-point in the books, but that's deceptive. I prefer to say first-, second-, and third-tier---or even minor, major, and defining Stunts.
                                A first-tier stunt gives you two dice on a roll, or one point on a static value like Defense or Resolve.
                                A second-tier stunt gives you two dice AND an automatic success AND 1 point of WP that can't exceed your regular WP cap (so often players just cash that in for another success) on a roll; on a static value, it adds two points.
                                A third-tier stunt gives you two dice AND two automatic successes AND 2 points of WP that can exceed your regular WP cap on a roll; on a static value, three points.
                                It can be tough to get out of the old "one die, two dice, three dice" stunt mindset, so it's good to keep this in mind.
                                TIL I'm playing wrong.


                                ..."But I've bought a big bat, I'm all ready you see. Now my troubles are going to have troubles with me"

                                Message me for Japanese translations.

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