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Musing on Sorcerous Projects that fuck with Exalted-type assumptions

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  • Musing on Sorcerous Projects that fuck with Exalted-type assumptions

    Idly musing...

    So, the Big Three sorcerous restrictions are: No controlling celestial bodies, no time travel, no resurrection.

    I, an enterprising an pain in the ass player with a sorcerer spec'd to the absolute gills with 'Do and succeed at arbitrarily difficult Sorcerous Projects' propose the following. How do you respond?

    * I am a Lunar, and want to eliminate my Tell. Not hide, but get rid of it.

    * I am a Lunar, and want to take advantage of the Mastery tag for a Martial Art / for all Martial Arts.

    * I am a Dragonblooded, and want to no longer be subject to the Terrestrial tag for a / all Martial Arts

    * I am a Solar, and want to be able to don a Resplendent Destiny like a Sidereal.

    * I am a Solar, and want to be able to shapeshift into a single animal shape like a Lunar. (to shapeshift in general like a Lunar)

    * I am a Solar, and want to ensure my children will be Dragonblooded.

    * I want to achieve apotheosis, becoming a god who retains all my current powers.

    * I want to make cosmetic changes to my Anima and caste mark.

    * I want to change/add to what my Anima powers are, swapping them for another caste/aspect.

    * I am a Dragonblooded, and want to increase/decrease/eliminate the damage my anima causes.

    * I want to increase my maximum trait caps (Intelligence 6, here we come!)

    * I am a Solar/Lunar, and want to be able to gain an Element Aura- either for better using an Artifact, or to better use an Immaculate Martial Art.

    * I want to increase the length of my Limit track.

    * I want to reduce or eliminate how I gain Limit.

    * I want to eliminate the Great Curse from myself / from everyone.

    * I want to permanently seal the Underworld from Creation.

    * I want to permanently seal the Wyld from Creation.

    * I want to permanently seal Malfaes from Creation.


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  • #2
    I'm not sure most of those are valid goals for sorcery. Ends, perhaps, but not goals. I could totally see a Working removing a Lunar's Tell, for example. But the Lunar isn't sitting down and thinking "I have to get rid of my Tell." Rather getting rid of the Tell is how she accomplishes her Working... or is an unintended botch effect of her Working. The goal would be something like "I want to be impossible to recognise" (or "I want to regrow my severed tail" if we're looking at a botch effect), and the mechanics of the Tell would come down to Finesse and ST agreement.

    We've got a thread for making judgements on sorcerous workings if you have an actual character in an actual game who wants to attempt one of these.

    But as an ST, my default answer here is just "no".


    Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

    Comment


    • #3
      Shapeshifting into a single animal shape is possible as a Celestial Working where you give yourself a single power. "Pay 1WP or 5m to turn into a single animal shape using Lunar Shapeshifting rules". Shapeshifting like a Lunar in general is a no. Cosmetic changes to anima and caste mark is potentially viable as a sorcerer. Messing with Dragon-Blooded Anima Flux is also possible. Mucking with Limit gain or such... maybe? Not eliminate the Great Curse, that's beyond anyone to achieve. Permanently seal something... maybe, but some beings will still be able to access it through magic of their own.

      To the rest I respond with No.

      Comment


      • #4
        I've rearranged these into three categories. First, the ones I would just flat-out say "no" on:

        Originally posted by wastevens View Post
        * I am a Solar, and want to ensure my children will be Dragonblooded.

        * I want to achieve apotheosis, becoming a god who retains all my current powers.

        * I want to increase the length of my Limit track.

        * I want to eliminate the Great Curse from myself / from everyone.
        The first one runs into the "sorcery can't make new Exalts" rule. The second one is out because, while you can become a god, keeping all your current powers means being both a god and an Exalt, and that's out. The last two are verbotten because the Great Curse is a bit too fundamental to the setting to be easily messed with.


        The next batch are all "Not as proposed here, but here's a more limited version":

        Originally posted by wastevens
        * I am a Lunar, and want to eliminate my Tell. Not hide, but get rid of it.
        I think this falls too far into "changing how the Exaltation works", so I wouldn't allow eliminating the Tell completely (and it makes the Lunar charm Subtle Silver Declaration look like garbage, which is also a no-no). I'd allow completely changing your Tell, though, so that someone who had seen the old one no longer counted as familiar with it.

        Originally posted by wastevens
        * I want to reduce or eliminate how I gain Limit.
        I could see changing your limit triggers, to something you guessed would be more uncommon. So you could tweak it so that, instead of gaining limit when you violated a Major or Defining intimacy, you instead took limit when one of your spells was resisted or distorted, giving up human sentiment in exchange for a personal link to your spells. But completely eliminating a source of limit gain goes against what I mentioned earlier about the Great Curse being too central to the setting for sorcery to muck with.

        Originally posted by wastevens
        * I am a Lunar, and want to take advantage of the Mastery tag for a Martial Art / for all Martial Arts.

        * I am a Dragonblooded, and want to no longer be subject to the Terrestrial tag for a / all Martial Arts
        These two, I could see working for a single Martial Art, and with some conditions on the benefit, similar to how Sidereals access Mastery tags.

        Originally posted by wastevens
        * I am a Solar, and want to be able to don a Resplendent Destiny like a Sidereal.

        * I am a Solar, and want to be able to shapeshift into a single animal shape like a Lunar. (to shapeshift in general like a Lunar)
        These two, I'd be okay with allowing a single Resplendent Destiny/shapeshifting form per working. I wouldn't allow the full range of destinies/shapeshifting, though I could see slightly larger categories being available with a powerful enough working (e.g., "all Resplendant Destines covered under the sign of The Ship's Mast", or "all canines"). But the full range devalues the other Exalted types too much.

        Originally posted by wastevens
        * I want to change/add to what my Anima powers are, swapping them for another caste/aspect.
        This would depend on which powers, specifically, you were trying to grab. Powers that rely on an outside entity (mostly the Eclipse oath-binding ability) I probably wouldn't allow. Others, I'd be more willing to allow if you could describe them in terms of tweaking your own existing caste abilities. For example, if you're a Dawn, and wanted the Zenith's ability to force spirits to materialize, I'd be more amenable if you described it as an extension of the Dawn's ability to terrify things, essentially "scaring them solid".

        Originally posted by wastevens
        * I want to increase my maximum trait caps (Intelligence 6, here we come!)
        Definitely not across the board, not even for a single Attribute or Ability. The best I'd allow for an Attribute would be allowing you to buy a "speciality" for the Attribute. So, for Dexterity, for example, you might take "Hand-Eye Coordination". On any Dexterity roll where you can justify hand-eye coordination being relevant, you can get the extra die. But that wouldn't increase your charm dice cap if you were a Lunar or Alchemical or other Attribute-focused Exalt. For Abilities, I likewise wouldn't allow broad cap-breaking. I could see saying that a particular speciality now stacked with others, though. So if you had specialities in Melee for "swords" and "on a ship", now you'd be getting two extra dice if you were fighting on a ship with a sword. Again, this wouldn't increase your charm dice cap.

        Originally posted by wastevens
        * I am a Solar/Lunar, and want to be able to gain an Element Aura- either for better using an Artifact, or to better use an Immaculate Martial Art.
        Possible, but I'd throw some hefty limitations on this - possibly limit it to no more than once a day, or even less, or require significant sacrifice to use it (perhaps you have to both "swallow" a bound elemental of the appropriate type, destroying it, and take some lethal damage in the process).

        Originally posted by wastevens
        * I want to permanently seal the Underworld from Creation.

        * I want to permanently seal the Wyld from Creation.

        * I want to permanently seal Malfaes from Creation.
        Permanently sealing any dimension off from Creation is beyond the power of sorcery, I think. I'd certainly allow permanently sealing a specific area of Creation from one of those dimensions, though, and I'd allow making it more difficult to reach the dimension from anywhere in Creation as an example of Solar Ambition 3's ability to "make subtle alterations to the metaphysics of the entire cosmos", as long as they were, indeed, subtle. So making it so that crossing the boundary of a shadowland into Creation always required 1 wp, no matter if it was day or night, that would be acceptable. But I wouldn't allow "it now takes 10 days to cross Cecelyne to Creation instead of 5" globally, because that's not subtle.


        The last category, I'd probably allow without too much quibbling

        Originally posted by wastevens
        * I want to make cosmetic changes to my Anima and caste mark.

        * I am a Dragonblooded, and want to increase/decrease/eliminate the damage my anima causes.
        These both seem fine to me, with the caveats that, for the first one, I wouldn't allow cosmetic changes to change what type of Exalt you appeared as (so a Lunar still looks like a Lunar, a Solar like a Solar, etc.), and for the second, I wouldn't allow perfect total elimination of the anima damage (eliminating it in some circumstances, or reducing but not eliminating it all the time, yes), and for increasing it, I'd generally cap that at no more than tripling anima flux damage.

        Comment


        • #5
          Exalted RPG is not metaphysical simulation. It's not literary world building. It's a role playing game. It's a tool to tell a story. The rules even explicitly state that they are wrong.

          So if you found yourself in a story where the Yozi have broken free from Malfeas, I'd probably allow a Solar 3 working to permanently seal off Malfeas. Likewise one of my old 2E powers did the whole "become a god and an Exalt" thing as a custom Essence 10 Charm.

          But generally speaking... all of these should be impossible unless there was a good reason in the story for them to be possible.
          Last edited by JohnDoe244; 12-22-2019, 03:17 PM.


          Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

          Comment


          • #6
            Where are you getting "no controlling celestial bodies" from? I thought the third hard limit on sorcery was "immortality always has a catch." Or was that added in another sourcebook?

            Admittedly, controlling celestial bodies might be very nearly impossible, not so much because sorcery isn't capable of doing it but because doing so would probably catch the attention of whichever Celestial Incarna rules the thing you just manipulated and they could probably counteract you somehow.

            Most of these, you probably couldn't do with just a working, although I agree that becoming able to turn into a single animal should be doable. (It does tend to intrude on the Lunars' shtick, but I can't think of a good reason to forbid it.)

            You could turn yourself into a god, but I don't think you could feasibly keep all your current powers. If you cease to be human entirely, the Exaltation flies away. I suppose with a powerful high-Finesse working you could end up as a god whose powers bear some similarity to the kinds of feats you were known for as an Exalt, but that really depends on the particulars.

            You could probably whip up a pretty damned effective disguise that people wouldn't recognize as your normal identity, but not an actual resplendent destiny. (Also you'd have an easier time doing this with Larceny+Socialize Charms.)

            I'm pretty sure maximum trait caps are meant to be inviolate. It's possible that you could end up with some kind of effect that gives you a situational non-Charm die bonus to rolls involving Intelligence (or whatever trait), I guess, but you couldn't actually increase your Intelligence to 6.

            As for the Limit/Great Curse stuff...honestly, I'm biased because I never liked the Great Curse anyway. If I were STing, I might say "Okay, tell you what. If you can get your hands on a sympathetic link to each of the Yozis, each of the Celestial Incarnae and Elemental Dragons, and also Autochthon, a Solar 3 working can eliminate that curse once and for all. Of course, that'll be a hell of an extended quest, and curing the Great Curse won't stop the Exalted from being dicks for purely human reasons."

            Permanently sealing Malfeas from Creation sounds difficult. Even if you could seal all of Creation from Malfeas...well, there are a lot of places where Creation and Malfeas connect, right? If you do one grand working that seals all of them at once, it would probably be a lot easier for someone else to do a working that re-opens just one pathway to Malfeas, and almost every sorcerer in Creation will be motivated to do this so they can have demon slaves again.

            Permanently sealing the Underworld from Creation sounds...okay, what the hell even happens when people die then? Even if they're going straight to Lethe, don't they need to pass through the Underworld to do that? It seems like you'd end up with an Autochthonia-style soul shortage disaster.

            Permanently sealing the Wyld from Creation doesn't make a lot of sense to me. It's not a separate realm of existence or anything; from a certain point of view, Creation is just the parts of the Wyld that have been forced into maintaining a consistent shape. What would you actually be doing, mapping out the exact borders of where fixed Creation currently meets the borderlands of the Wyld (already an incredibly difficult task) and then setting up a barrier around all of it? I think that may genuinely be a bigger task than an Ambition 3 Solar working can manage.

            Comment


            • #7
              A lot of things might be possible with a sorcerous working, where additional resources are used, and more game mechanics are involved than just the sorcerous working mechanics. For some of the things that involve changes to yourself, it might make sense to first take a custom Charm enabling you to make those changes by sorcerous workings, and then doing a sorcerous working.

              For some of the things that involve changes to Creation, it might turn out that the character knows how to do the sorcerous working, but this requires certain rare components which themselves need quests to acquire. The Storyteller could set this up so these changes have a more appropriate narrative attached than just a bunch of Occult rolls.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by wastevens View Post
                Idly musing...

                So, the Big Three sorcerous restrictions are: No controlling celestial bodies, no time travel, no resurrection.

                I, an enterprising an pain in the ass player with a sorcerer spec'd to the absolute gills with 'Do and succeed at arbitrarily difficult Sorcerous Projects' propose the following. How do you respond?
                * I am a Lunar, and want to eliminate my Tell. Not hide, but get rid of it.
                Subtle Silver Declaration is as good as you get. I'd allow changing it as Terrestrial 2.

                * I am a Lunar, and want to take advantage of the Mastery tag for a Martial Art / for all Martial Arts.
                Nope! You picked the wrong exalt type for that.

                * I am a Dragonblooded, and want to no longer be subject to the Terrestrial tag for a / all Martial Arts
                Go learn a Dragon style, kid.

                * I am a Solar, and want to be able to don a Resplendent Destiny like a Sidereal.
                Nope! You picked the wrong exalt type for that.

                * I am a Solar, and want to be able to shapeshift into a single animal shape like a Lunar. (to shapeshift in general like a Lunar)
                Sure, but it'll be a separate Terrestrial 2 working every time you want to change shape. Or change back. You picked the wrong exalt type for that.

                * I am a Solar, and want to ensure my children will be Dragonblooded.
                Nope! No exalt assembly lines.

                * I want to achieve apotheosis, becoming a god who retains all my current powers.
                Depends on what this actually means.

                * I want to make cosmetic changes to my Anima and caste mark.
                As long as you're recognizable as your exalt type it's Celestial 1, and I won't charge XP. Looking like a new type of exalt is Celestial 2. Looking like another type of exalt is Nope!

                * I want to change/add to what my Anima powers are, swapping them for another caste/aspect.
                A full caste/aspect swap, Celestial 2. But you have to totally rebuild the character, no having all your old Caste Charms stick around while you open up a discount for another set. Homebrew caste/aspect is maybe, let's talk.

                * I am a Dragonblooded, and want to increase/decrease/eliminate the damage my anima causes.
                Depends on the details. Turning down/off Anima Burn would definitely be OK.

                * I want to increase my maximum trait caps (Intelligence 6, here we come!)
                You're welcome to leave my game and go join an Exalted 2nd Edition game.

                * I am a Solar/Lunar, and want to be able to gain an Element Aura- either for better using an Artifact, or to better use an Immaculate Martial Art.
                Nope! You picked the wrong exalt type for that.

                * I want to increase the length of my Limit track.
                How does your character even know this is a thing? What's the in-game reason and objective for doing this working?

                * I want to reduce or eliminate how I gain Limit.
                How does your character even know this is a thing? What's the in-game reason and objective for doing this working?

                * I want to eliminate the Great Curse from myself / from everyone.
                How does your character even know this is a thing? What's the in-game reason and objective for doing this working?

                * I want to permanently seal the Underworld from Creation.
                I'd let it be done locally at Solar 2, and enjoy your unending hordes of the restless dead.

                * I want to permanently seal the Wyld from Creation.
                I'd let it be done locally at Solar 2, but it would be possible to undo.

                * I want to permanently seal Malfaes from Creation
                Local, enduring, but breakable at Solar 2, or Solar 3 for a temporary creation-wide seal ("No demons this Calibration!").

                Comment


                • #9
                  Where I would fall on this is that Sorcerous Projects that try to access an single "Out of Exalt" type effect, don't get to do that without fundamentally changing your nature as an Exalt in ways that are probably impossible, or have across the board sweeping effects.

                  Like a Solar doing a Working Resplendent Destiny access well, very difficult, and difficult without changing his nature very deeply in a range of other ways. Now, a more narrow effect that is Resplendent Destiny-like, in the sense of some magically assumed alternate identity which is all mythic-archetypal and has access to particular powers, and is effectively mechanically identical from our perspective, well, that's probably quite easy for a Solar Sorcerer.

                  But actually using an actual bonafide in-setting Resplendent Destiny, very difficult, because it involves fundamentally reordering her Essence to attune with Fate in a particular way on a level that's much deeper, and perhaps inimical to the nature of Solar Exaltation.

                  Same thing with Dragonblooded ignoring the "Terrestrial" tag. That's tag is a representation of Dragonblooded having less fundamental power to bring to bear in MA, so I find it difficult to imagine changing that without generally souping up *everything* about the DB, and that would be of course expensive and very difficult. (With this specifically I'd I'm also a bit leery about effects that tend to imply sorcerers have "meta" knowledge of the system, because it undermines the idea that the system is representational and not literal.)

                  These might not be something that you would necessarily be banned, but for me you're talking Workings that are really expensive and give chunky packages where you're not really what you were at *all*, rather than being basically Exalt X with a property of Exalt Y.

                  Does any of this make sense? Part of this is probably personal preference in that I'm more interested in "Some weird totally new thing that emerges out of an Exalt and is a one-off" than "Existing Exalt type that can also do....".

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Looking at the wider examples, I'd say most of them are essentially too difficult for any plausible player-character I'd guess... until they have surpassed the heights of the First Age, including a society with vastly more magical knowledge than the First Age Solars had?

                    But there is a difficult question in the ones that are of feasible power in maintaining the integrity of the feel created by the fundamental assumptions while really emphasizing that Sorcery is what 3e tries to get back to presenting it as - a fundamental, very flexible, and chief power of the Exalted to shape the very fundamental forces of reality, and their deepest and most profound magic, and which is really a big boon to the distinctive flavour of 3e as an edition that puts more emphasis on "Sword & Sorcery" than prior editions. (Rather than the 2e version where it's more like a kind-of-weak Jack of All Trades power).

                    I'm not going to say 'Don't think about these things' but I certainly can't say I have an answer - whatever the answer is should tend to reinforce that sorcerers are engaging with real magical forces and that the powers of the Exalted are holistically unified expressions of their particular Exalted essences, not just a grab bag of arbitrary powers that can be combined in arbitrary ways without acknowledging deep changes in fundamental essence.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I mean, I'd allow some of these as mass solar circle team projects but many of them should never happen.
                      Originally posted by wastevens View Post
                      Idly musing...

                      So, the Big Three sorcerous restrictions are: No controlling celestial bodies, no time travel, no resurrection.

                      I, an enterprising an pain in the ass player with a sorcerer spec'd to the absolute gills with 'Do and succeed at arbitrarily difficult Sorcerous Projects' propose the following. How do you respond?

                      * I am a Lunar, and want to eliminate my Tell. Not hide, but get rid of it.

                      * I am a Lunar, and want to take advantage of the Mastery tag for a Martial Art / for all Martial Arts.

                      * I am a Dragonblooded, and want to no longer be subject to the Terrestrial tag for a / all Martial Arts

                      * I am a Solar, and want to be able to don a Resplendent Destiny like a Sidereal.

                      * I am a Solar, and want to be able to shapeshift into a single animal shape like a Lunar. (to shapeshift in general like a Lunar)

                      * I am a Solar, and want to ensure my children will be Dragonblooded.

                      * I want to achieve apotheosis, becoming a god who retains all my current powers.

                      * I want to make cosmetic changes to my Anima and caste mark.

                      * I want to change/add to what my Anima powers are, swapping them for another caste/aspect.

                      * I am a Dragonblooded, and want to increase/decrease/eliminate the damage my anima causes.

                      * I want to increase my maximum trait caps (Intelligence 6, here we come!)

                      * I am a Solar/Lunar, and want to be able to gain an Element Aura- either for better using an Artifact, or to better use an Immaculate Martial Art.

                      * I want to increase the length of my Limit track.

                      * I want to reduce or eliminate how I gain Limit.

                      * I want to eliminate the Great Curse from myself / from everyone.

                      * I want to permanently seal the Underworld from Creation.

                      * I want to permanently seal the Wyld from Creation.

                      * I want to permanently seal Malfaes from Creation.
                      I'd say removing your tell is like removing a limb. And your new tell is your new missing limb. If your tell is cat ears, they are your ears. If you change them into a new shape, your tell is now this new shape (It would be weird if your tell was suddenly human ears on animal shapes.) You don't need sorcery to disfigure yourself really.

                      For Mastery Tags, Ehhhhh.... I might allow this with a good story and a fitting style. Perhaps a working per charm? It would be like a 4xp tax per charm. That might work as Celestial 3? Dragon blooded could do Celestial 3 for removal of Terrestrial and Solar 3 for Mastery? Again good story and fitting. Per charm. Fineness 5 for every working.

                      Making a second person and being able to take it on and off seems Solar 1/2 ish? It is easier to do with Solar charms though. Wouldn't be a copy of the Sidereal ability but a close imitation.

                      Others have commented on the Solar to animal.

                      I imagine the whole 3rd edition dragon blooded can go on a pilgrimage for 1 for sure child is a multi-solar working. Outside player scope without massive npc help. (Aka End game events)

                      Becoming a god is a step down, and you wouldn't keep your current powers. As a Solar you can learn God charms, and with a working you could likely learn charms. 1 per working. Maybe.

                      Not sure how I feel about cosmetic changes to Anima or Caste marks with sorcery. Solar 1 at least. It is like warping your soul. Do you really want to do that? The other anima effects might fall under Yozi/Neverborn/Multi-Solar workings.

                      Max traits, Seems like a hard no. The 2ed edition merit shows how bad overmax traits and bonus dice work together. This would become a must have working.

                      Elemental Aura on non-Dragon blooded is a hard no. A faux elemental aura maybe. Something you can trigger with a WP expenture. spores in your flesh that burst open making a 1 round cloud that you could channel to act as a Wood Aura that turn? Something like that. Once per day, reset by laying in wet ground for several hours? Just a thought.

                      Limit stuff is a hard no. Botched workings for soul mutations might lower your limit track forever though. Or add extra limit break conditions.

                      Permanently sealing anything more than a single door is a multi-Solar working. Perhaps requiring that all permanently open doors be closed first, each door requiring a Solar circle spell (Such as the one to close shadowlands) This is a campaign not off screen roll.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm also a fan of this stuff, so

                        * I am a Lunar, and want to eliminate my Tell. Not hide, but get rid of it.
                        Not a working, this would require petitioning Lunato sacrifice some of her power to use the exigence to alter your exaltation. A solar working could alter your Tell down to something like sharing a genetic variant with your animal shape or only being visible under the light of a Sidereal anima during Calibration, something negligible but still possible to be found.

                        * I am a Lunar, and want to take advantage of the Mastery tag for a Martial Art / for all Martial Arts.
                        Done, Solar 1 to access a Solaroid power. Less than Finesse 5 comes with creaking muscles barely containing your power or a botch might set off an alarm in some forgotten office in Yu Shan every time you use a Mastery power whilst in Form. For example.

                        * I am a Dragonblooded, and want to no longer be subject to the Terrestrial tag for a / all Martial Arts
                        Done. Celestial 2 to access a non-DB power. As above re: lesser Finesse.

                        * I am a Solar, and want to be able to don a Resplendent Destiny like a Sidereal.
                        Solar 3, subtle alterations to the cosmos. You tweak one of the constellations to recognise you as an Agent of Fate. The Bronze Faction are upset with you regardless of Finesse.

                        * I am a Solar, and want to be able to shapeshift into a single animal shape like a Lunar. (to shapeshift in general like a Lunar)
                        Celestial 2 can give you random powers, like taking an animal form. Or a dual-working (probably Solar 2) with your Lunar mate where you trade some of your gold for their silver, giving you basic shapeshifting and a Tell in exchange for them being resonant with any magical material, for example.

                        * I am a Solar, and want to ensure my children will be Dragonblooded.
                        Celestial 3 to infuse yourself with elemental essence and give yourself the Breeding merit. If you want to ensure they're DBNs then get yourself one or more DB partners to make babies with. Or trap an Elemental Dragon in a geomantic cage and cut pieces off for a sufficiently-bolstered Neomah to turn into little DB slave-children. This is likely to upset the Immaculate Order, and Gaia may or may not intervene.

                        * I want to achieve apotheosis, becoming a god who retains all my current powers.
                        Why? What about being a God appeals to you? You can already have Cult and build yourself a sanctum. If it's the bigger mote pools or the personal/peripheral split then they can be fixed. If it's immortality then that has a catch per the big three rules.

                        * I want to make cosmetic changes to my Anima and caste mark.
                        Celestial 1, but you also need to review your intimacies since your anima iconography was probably relevant when you wrote them.

                        * I want to change/add to what my Anima powers are, swapping them for another caste/aspect.
                        Not a working, need to petition Big Daddy Sol to use the exigence to alter your exaltation. I'd a allow a dual-working Solar 3, where you traded powers with another willing Solar. This latter version have plot-point consequences (nothing to do with Finesse); eg. the Solar exaltations were the lock on Malfeas, so by messing with them you cave caused a crack in the cage. The Yozi still can't escape, but bigger and bafdder demons are roaming more freely unbound as a reuslt.

                        * I am a Dragonblooded, and want to increase/decrease/eliminate the damage my anima causes.
                        That's a charm, not a working.

                        * I want to increase my maximum trait caps (Intelligence 6, here we come!)
                        I allow this at Celestial 2. Specifically I've let enlightened mortals (which exist in my world) gain MA 5+ in order to learn higher essence MA charms than they can naturally.

                        * I am a Solar/Lunar, and want to be able to gain an Element Aura- either for better using an Artifact, or to better use an Immaculate Martial Art.
                        Celestial 2 for one element, do it 5 times to get them all. Since Solar and Lunar charms don't have elemental affinities, the MA charms will be a must to use this power.

                        * I want to increase the length of my Limit track.
                        N/A - you don't know what a Limit track. If Jupiter has given up the goods and told you, then Solar 3 can do it but regardless of Finesse, I would expect the ST to come up with some more extreme virtue flaws / behaviours due to the increased amount of Limit points you possess when you finally do Limit Break.

                        * I want to reduce or eliminate how I gain Limit.
                        As above. N/A or if you know about the Curse, then you can modify your behaviour without need of a working. Maybe some training time to alter your limit trigger, no need for XP if you are aware of the curse and able to make conscious decisions about controlling it. For Eliminate, see below.

                        * I want to eliminate the Great Curse from myself / from everyone.
                        To eliminate the curse you would need to know about it. If you do, then I'd allow a Solar 3 to set your Limit Track to zero, meaning you can't Limit Break but also still have your limit trigger etc. The Great Curse is indelibly part of your exaltation, petitioning the Neverborn and Sol to use the exigence would clear it, but that would have consequences for the Neverborn, ie accepting they're really dead.

                        * I want to permanently seal the Underworld from Creation.
                        I think Solar 1 lets you blast a Shadowland away. Get to work doing it for all of them. No one size fits all shortcuts.

                        * I want to permanently seal the Wyld from Creation.
                        Besides pissing off the one person who bought all the Wyld-Shaping charms, unlike the above the Wyld is infinite. You can turn Borders into Creaton, Middles into Borders and Deep into Middles, but there's always more Deep Wyld to convert. Not possible, but you could use Solar 3 workings to make existence in Creation anathema to Fae so they will generally refuse to enter. Which is less reliable, but has a similar outcome.

                        * I want to permanently seal Malfaes from Creation.
                        Creation is sealed off from Malfeas, what are you talking about. Are you implying that the Yozi could someday be free?!?!?! Alternatively, like above you could shield Creation from Demons entering unbound using their weird loopholes and seal portals to Malfeas like Shadowlands.


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                        • #13
                          My takes:

                          I am a Lunar, and want to eliminate my Tell. Not hide, but get rid of it.

                          Your lack of a tell is now your tell. No, I don't get how this works either.

                          I am a Lunar, and want to take advantage of the Mastery tag for a Martial Art / for all Martial Arts.

                          I don't think this is sorcery. I might allow a lunar to invent a martial art that resonates with them so strongly they have mastery of it, like Mara did.

                          I am a Dragonblooded, and want to no longer be subject to the Terrestrial tag for a / all Martial Arts

                          As others have said, go learneth thee a dragon style.

                          Actually that might also be a valid option to the lunar mastery thing. Get sids to help make a lunar af martial art that somehow lets you use mastery for a tic in certain situations. Probably broken as hell do not actually do this.

                          I am a Solar, and want to be able to don a Resplendent Destiny like a Sidereal.

                          Not sure what this would achieve that their disguise charms don't, tbh

                          I am a Solar, and want to be able to shapeshift into a single animal shape like a Lunar. (to shapeshift in general like a Lunar)

                          This sounds fine for the single animal option. In general? No. Just no.

                          I am a Solar, and want to ensure my children will be Dragonblooded.

                          The caul pilgrimage is currently the only printed way of ensuring a dragon blooded will have a dragon blooded child, and it's such a long, arduous task that if it were possible to do with a working nobody would bother with it. So how you do this is, find a deeb that's done the pilgrimage, and have a kid with them.

                          I want to achieve apotheosis, becoming a god who retains all my current powers.

                          Why? there is no reason to ever do this.

                          I want to make cosmetic changes to my Anima and caste mark.

                          Yeah, sure, this is fine.

                          I want to change/add to what my Anima powers are, swapping them for another caste/aspect.

                          Just get charms that do the things you want to do.

                          I am a Dragonblooded, and want to increase/decrease/eliminate the damage my anima causes.

                          Yeah, this would be a charm, really. I guess a working is fine.

                          I want to increase my maximum trait caps (Intelligence 6, here we come!)

                          Ok, so I would allow this, but only as part of some radical metamorphosis. You want to become MODOK? Sure lets be MODOK.

                          I am a Solar/Lunar, and want to be able to gain an Element Aura- either for better using an Artifact, or to better use an Immaculate Martial Art.

                          I think there's gonna be an SMA that lets you do this

                          I want to increase the length of my Limit track.

                          I feel like the limit track is too much of a game abstraction for sorcery to affect, frankly.

                          I want to reduce or eliminate how I gain Limit.

                          Might allow replacing it with something else, like alchemical clarity I guess.

                          I want to eliminate the Great Curse from myself / from everyone.

                          Ok, so my take, and this may not be super official, is that the Great Curse isn't this thing you can wipe clean. Rather it's damage to the exaltations themselves. So I guess, assuming you somehow found out about it, you might be able to "fix" your own exaltation? Maybe? Or maybe it needs to be removed first in which case you're SOOL.

                          I want to permanently seal the Underworld from Creation.

                          Kinda feel like if this was possible it'd have been done in the first age.

                          I want to permanently seal the Wyld from Creation.

                          Same logic as underworld goes here.

                          I want to permanently seal Malfaes from Creation.

                          I'm gonna assume they left cracks in the shell when they made it for a reason.

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                          • #14
                            If I was going to make a MA that resonated with Lunars, I'd likely allow the MA to be accessed in animal forms and then, if they learn the Form Charm, they get to access other MAs in animal forms only during the first tick each round that they shapeshift into an animal they haven't shifted into during the scene. Mastery + comboing with native Charms is way too much, but at least with animal forms they have to devise finely-tuned combos and have conditions fall perfectly into place for the combos to really shine, between animal abilities and MA/Native Charms. And it's also a 4m surcharge to access MAs in animal forms given you need to be shifting for that to happen, and cannot repeat the same combo twice unless you have several forms of the same animal.

                            Just musing on that idea. Sounds like a fun thing to brew.

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                            • #15
                              These would all absolutely require context for me to say yes or no on as a GM. For starters, is this a mixed splat game? If yes, I would eagerly allow something like a Deeb ditching terrestrial to keep up with a solar group or a Ronin sidereal reducing/curing the effects of their specific case of Arcane Fate to do fate ninja shenanigans with a group of Lunars (don't ask why).


                              Exalted is an aesthetic.

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