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  • #46
    Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
    All of those things you describe could be implemented through regular artifact armor rated at least 4 dots. 5 dots would make it easier, while also clearly marking it as a product of the First Age that modern Terrestrials simply cannot make in the modern day. An N/A rating even more so.
    Well in previous editions anyway it had all those myriad effects because it was magitech designed to enhance elite soldiers and give them defenses against things they would commonly face, stealthy foes, divination magic, hostile environments, etc. And they're also a class set apart from the other artifact armours.

    You could look at a suit of artifact fullplate and not know for sure if it was a three dot wonder or an artifact N/A with a directional war god trapped in the breastplate, but when you see Dragon Armor you'd have trouble mistaking it for anything else. Even more than regular artifact armor, Dragon Armor is supposed to be terrifying, it's mentioned in the same paragraph as lightning ballista, implosion bows and warstriders.

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    • #47
      Wait, hang on, no, powered armor specifically also exists in Arms of the Chosen, it's called out in the sidebar about first age artiface on page 116.

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      • #48
        How do we differentiate power armor from just really powerful artifact armor? Well, one way that would form a solid core would be to make interaction with craft rules, specifically the expenditure of white XP for fast tracking charm unlocks, part of the core mechanics of the artifact rather than an interaction with the Solar craft tree. Add in some once per story unless reset by a superior project of maintenance charms for extra Tony Stark recallibrating his armor opportunities.

        The beauty part is that the aesthetics this suggests would make for a distinctive class of artifact. One flanked at all times by engineers, followed by carravans containing portable workshops, and generally creating story hooks for Lookshy Sorecerer Engineer support teams.


        Exalted is an aesthetic.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by vwllss trnt prncss View Post

          But isn't "Fighting man-sized opponents" what normal artifact armor is made for?
          No. It's for keeping you alive.

          Normal artifact armor is about providing protection.

          A Warstrider is not about providing protection.

          Neither is power armor.

          Brilliant Sentinel, a 3 dot artifact armor is about protecting yourself and others.
          Mela's Coil, a 5 dot artifact armor, is about transforming into a giant Dragon.

          Power Armor is about fighting the same kinds of threats Warstriders are for, but on a roughly human sized scale.

          Warstriders are for Grendel.
          Power Armor is for Medusa.


          Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

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          • #50
            Pretty sure the only "armor" worn by the guy who killed Medusa was a shield, winged sandals, and a helmet.

            ​(And Beowulf wasn't exactly girded in armor when he fought Grendel either.)

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            • #51
              Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
              Pretty sure the only "armor" worn by the guy who killed Medusa was a shield, winged sandals, and a helmet.

              ​(And Beowulf wasn't exactly girded in armor when he fought Grendel either.)
              He specifically fought Grendel without weapons and I’m pretty sure in his PJs. And ripped his arms off.
              Rostams armor might be better but it’s also “just” armor.


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              • #52
                The point is that Power Armor is as much a weapon, and a tactical suite as it is armor.


                Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

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                • #53
                  Mela's Coils come with built-in weapon systems as a note. And nothing stops normal armor from ahving things like energy weapons or other such systems. Cathedral of Supreme Annihilation came up as an example of that with wartriders at least.

                  I think this whole thing is trying to create a special category that existed in 2e because magitech was in itself its own special category of artifact. WIth that no longer being the case and First Age Artifice bieng about setting integrity more than it is aesthetic, I am kind of in a camp that is seeing htis as looking for forcing a distinction that need not be there. Artifact armor is still impressive stuff. The sci-fi looking kind just doesn't have this special privilege to being a unique, separate thing unless it alters teh setting if too ubiquious.


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                  • #54
                    Well, I think the obvious place to start with power armor is that power armor is set apart from regular armor in that it powers it’s own locomotion, it enhances strength and endurance, and it requires a power source beyond the users own muscles.

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                    • #55
                      People looked at the Moonsilver Unison armor in Arms of the Chosen and supposed it was inspired by the super-suit from Crysis. And it was “just” a conventional 5-dot artifact.


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                      • #56
                        Chainswords in Autochthonian don’t deserve to be a specific, mechanical category, any more than flaming swords in Creation.

                        They would definitely be a category of style recognized by people, just as people in creation recognize a difference between straight swords and katanas.

                        But within the abstractions of Exalted, a straight sword and a slashing sword are mechanically the same thing, and a chain sword is just a daiklave with evocations and thus abstractly the same as a flaming sword.


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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Blaque View Post
                          I think this whole thing is trying to create a special category that existed in 2e because magitech was in itself its own special category of artifact. WIth that no longer being the case and First Age Artifice bieng about setting integrity more than it is aesthetic, I am kind of in a camp that is seeing htis as looking for forcing a distinction that need not be there. Artifact armor is still impressive stuff. The sci-fi looking kind just doesn't have this special privilege to being a unique, separate thing unless it alters teh setting if too ubiquious.
                          I think there’s some use in distinction. We have siege weapons, like ballista, we have artifact siege weapons which are ballista made of orichalcum and wound up with essence, but then we also have Implosion Bows and Lightning Ballista. They’re different enough from the other artifact siege weapons to warrant their own catagory. For one they must both be powered by hearthstones, both require evocations to fire outside of demolition, both require regular artifact maintenance.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
                            Wait, hang on, no, powered armor specifically also exists in Arms of the Chosen, it's called out in the sidebar about first age artiface on page 116.
                            I'm glad somebody else noticed this.

                            When one developer or the other mentioned that the Evocations of gunzosha armour would consist of fine control over tactical systems rather than awakening a spiritual power, I was glad for having something solid to hold on to do that some reconciliation could be made with people who talked about wanting power armour, and we could all shut up and move on.

                            But looking more into it, Eric seems to have consistently said that the only thing that distinguishes gunzosha armour as requiring First Age Artifice to craft is the fact that it can be assumed by mortals.

                            Which leads to the frustrating conclusion that powered armour really is something that has been zoned out of the game, and leaving a reference to it in that sidebar was an oversight or lacked a bit of foreknowledge.

                            I don't mourn the loss myself, but the sender of bait and switch puts me right out.

                            Setting aside the question of whether FAA armour being defined by following the precedent of gunzosha by consuming the life of the wearer is... kind of dumb, it would still fall into the space of being pretty damn obscure to refer to it as powered armour.


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                            • #59
                              It might be useful if we clarified what the distinction actually is.

                              What makes an implosion bow different from a "mundane" ballista that fires storm serpent exhalations stored in jars? Or an artifact ballista that requires you to summon an air elemental into it for power?

                              A mundane suit of armor can have workings done to it that would allow the wearer to breathe underwater or march for hours in the Southern desert with magical cooling and refreshment.

                              Way back in the bad old days of discussing Magitech in 3E, Isator brought up the Ancestor Sashes of An-Teng as a comparison to Gunzosha armor. They function roughly the same way, empowering mortals with power comparable to young exalts. But magical sashes inscribed with the legends of heroes doesn't seem to ping the same FAA trigger than "mass-produced" suits of power armor.
                              Last edited by Exthalion; 12-30-2019, 03:51 PM.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Exthalion View Post
                                It might be useful if we clarified what the distinction actually is.

                                What makes an implosion bow different from a "mundane" ballista that fires storm serpent exhalations stored in jars? Or an artifact ballista that requires you to summon an air elemental into it for power?
                                Well, specifically, it requires a hearthstone for power, requires regular maintenance, and attacking anything other than a wall requires you to spend 10m and a willpower.

                                Now, there’s nothing stopping you from having a special artifact ballista that functions like that, but it would probably be a single unique item, like Mela’s Coil. Lightning ballistae are not like that, there’s several of them and they all function in that same way, hearthstone, or in rare cases captured elemental, powering it, requires maintenance, requires evocation to fire. If you’ve got fifty of that same thing surely that deserves to be its own catagory?

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