Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

How do you make art ?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Chausse
    started a topic How do you make art ?

    How do you make art ?

    So we all know the Craft system has its flaws, let's say, but a particular lack I would like to discuss with you in this game is "Art". I've had a few share of players with Craft wanting to to paintings, statues, etc ... that impress people but I haven't find an easy solution about it. Make it a sub-part of Performance ? Why not ? Does any one have good ideas of Charms about Art (sculpture, painting, etc ...) ? I guess simple and straight Charms would be like "First time someone sees this thing they must resist a roll of X or be inspired by these Y feelings" or something along those lines

  • Sith_Happens
    replied
    Originally posted by BrilliantRain View Post
    As for Passion-Enflaming Artistry, you really cannot just give that charm to a Solar. Unless you like the idea of someone getting 75 successes on a social influence roll anyway.
    Sounds fine to me, Resolve already isn’t the major obstacle for social Solars and threshold successes don’t do anything so congrats on the 60 of those 75 that will literally never matter (give or take the one Lunar Charm that gives a bit a non-Charm Resolve).

    Leave a comment:


  • Tymeaus Jalynsfein
    replied
    Yeah, that is how we looked at it as well...

    Leave a comment:


  • DrLoveMonkey
    replied
    Splitting the rolls also stops expert crafters from also packing a big social punch. Although I might limit it mostly to inspire rolls, and possibly with a penalty depending.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tymeaus Jalynsfein
    replied
    Except that it explicitly does allow Other Abilities to implement Social Influence...

    Social Influence. Page 213...
    The core of the social influence system is the influence roll. The dice pool for an influence roll is always one of your social Attributes (Charisma, Manipulation, or Appearance) plus a relevant Ability, against a difficulty of the Resolve rating of the character you’re trying to influence. Successful influence rolls allow you to alter a character’s feelings or beliefs or to convince him to do something for you, based on the social action or Charm used.

    ​I would decouple the Crafting of the actual Item from the Embedding of the Social Influence... Thus, most Crafting Charms would not be usable for Social Influence... Much like I/we use the Linguistics plus Social Attribute to embed the Influence... It is a different roll from the actual written text itself. The crafting of a book and its illuminated contents are the work of crafting (either Linguistics or Craft depending upon the actual ability used)... the embedded Social Influence is the Craft (or Linguistics) plus the Social Attribute used to impart that influence.

    One is how well you actually made the Piece.
    The other is how well you embedded your Social Influence within the piece.

    If that makes sense.
    Last edited by Tymeaus Jalynsfein; 02-11-2020, 04:14 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • BrilliantRain
    replied
    By default, Craft lets you make things that, at the storyteller’s discretion, can cause someone to gain an intimacy towards you. Now, as this is one of the craft rewards, they are encouraged to let you have this, but it doesn’t actually engage with the social influence system, at least not directly. Alternately, if you know that a particular person likes a particular type of thing, you could craft the thing and use it as leverage in Bargain rolls, but that’s still not directly engaging the social system with craft.

    Linguistics, on the other hand, allows you to stick social influence on objects and has lots of charms relating to said influence attempts, but does not by default allow you to make sculptures or paint or anything like that.

    Personally, were I writing the system, I’d rewrite Linguistics into Artistry and have that cover the primarily aesthetic forms of making stuff. As is, if you really need to have a thing that has a social influence built into it, I’d allow a Linguistics roll to stick an Inspire effect onto any object that doesn’t have writing on it.

    As for Passion-Enflaming Artistry, you really cannot just give that charm to a Solar. Unless you like the idea of someone getting 75 successes on a social influence roll anyway. Craft gets some BS dice tricks, because the difficulties for building artifacts are so high.

    Generally speaking, you don’t ever want someone to roll Craft for anything else, not combat nor social influence, because of all of its dice tricks.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tymeaus Jalynsfein
    replied
    Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
    Also drop the setting it has for basic projects? Or would you I’ve or add the non-charm dice to basic projects as well?

    I would not have an issue adding the Non-Charm [Essence} Dice of Passion Inflaming Artistry to Basic Projects, to be honest...

    Leave a comment:


  • Sith_Happens
    replied
    Yeah, not sure how I’d change Passion-Inflaming Artistry accordingly but I also don’t see the problem with allowing (Charisma or Manipulation) + Craft rolls to make art that conveys social influence, give or take message complexity limitations and maybe the Resolve bonus for nonverbal.

    Leave a comment:


  • DrLoveMonkey
    replied
    Also drop the setting it has for basic projects? Or would you I’ve or add the non-charm dice to basic projects as well?

    Leave a comment:


  • Tymeaus Jalynsfein
    replied
    I don't think that you would need to... would not Passion Inflaming Artistry just allow a replacement of the Social Attribute used to Complete the project and generate the Inspiration of the completed work instead of a Social Attribute.

    Hmmm... Of course, if you actually used Passion Inflaming Artistry, rather than normal Social Action Roll (Craft + Social Attribute), when the Charm Fades, the essence is gone and it no longer supernaturally Inspires... Which may be an issue, Since Artistic works using the guidelines of Social Actions would inspire indefinitely, this would make the Charm a bit less useful,. So, in that regard, I would make the following change (which is not really a change of the Charm, other than using Social Attribute rather than whatever Attribute the Craft would use)... This is a bit off the cuff, so bear with me...

    Use Passion Inflaming Artistry with the Social Action to provide a double baseline... basic Social Action provides the Standard Success level that interacts with Resolve to Inspire... the Charm would add additional Successes for the Requisite time-frame of the charm that would supernaturally enhance the successes over that time. For example... the Painter creates a fantastic Portrait that inspires Sadness... Painter rolls Craft (painting) plus Manipulation, gaining [Essence} Non-Charm Dice due to Passion Inflaming Artistry and makes their roll. The base roll provides 4 success and the Non-Charm Dice add 2 more.. This sets the Success at 6 for Essence + Charisma Days (Due to the Charm) and then drops to 4 from that point on...

    So not really any change, at the baseline, but the Charm still has an effect for the Duration of the Charm's effect. Does that make any sense?

    Leave a comment:


  • DrLoveMonkey
    replied
    Originally posted by Tymeaus Jalynsfein View Post
    Well, I would make a craft roll to create the piece of Work... And then when embedding the Social Influence, I would go with Craft + Social Attribute to embed an Instill or Inspiration (As the Standard Social Action described on p213).... Written Works use Linguistics + an Attribute (we used Charisma in my case) to embed the social influence portion due to linguistics being the Written Word. Crafting would Use Craft + Social Attribute to do the same.

    It is a pretty elegant system, really
    Would you modify passion inflaming artistry under those rules?

    Leave a comment:


  • Tymeaus Jalynsfein
    replied
    Well, I would make a craft roll to create the piece of Work... And then when embedding the Social Influence, I would go with Craft + Social Attribute to embed an Instill or Inspiration (As the Standard Social Action described on p213).... Written Works use Linguistics + an Attribute (we used Charisma in my case) to embed the social influence portion due to linguistics being the Written Word. Crafting would Use Craft + Social Attribute to do the same.

    It is a pretty elegant system, really
    Last edited by Tymeaus Jalynsfein; 02-11-2020, 01:16 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chausse
    replied
    Originally posted by Tymeaus Jalynsfein View Post
    Linguistics (Written Works) engages with the Social Influence part of the system innately.. The charms just make it better.
    As for Most Arts - They would fall under the Craft System. Which also works with the Social Influence system Innately (You can inspire Intimacies with Crafts when giving gifts, etc.) And as for Many of the Social Systems, I would use the guidelines for Linguistics for Inspirational Art )see below)..

    Linguistics Sidebar, Page 322
    With written social influence, roll (Attribute + Linguistics) the moment the character finishes the composition and record the successes. The character must use any enhancing magic she knows at the moment this roll is required [if she is wanting to use magic to enhance it], because once she has finished encoding her work with magic, she may not alter it again without magic specifically for this purpose.

    So, Standard Influence Rolls, recorded at the moment of artistic creation, then compare to the Resolve of the Viewer. after any relevant intimacies are put in place to either raise or lower Resolve. .
    So it's a Craft Roll vs Resolve ?

    Leave a comment:


  • Tymeaus Jalynsfein
    replied
    Linguistics (Written Works) engages with the Social Influence part of the system innately.. The charms just make it better.
    As for Most Arts - They would fall under the Craft System. Which also works with the Social Influence system Innately (You can inspire Intimacies with Crafts when giving gifts, etc.) And as for Many of the Social Systems, I would use the guidelines for Linguistics for Inspirational Art )see below)..

    Linguistics Sidebar, Page 322
    With written social influence, roll (Attribute + Linguistics) the moment the character finishes the composition and record the successes. The character must use any enhancing magic she knows at the moment this roll is required [if she is wanting to use magic to enhance it], because once she has finished encoding her work with magic, she may not alter it again without magic specifically for this purpose.

    So, Standard Influence Rolls, recorded at the moment of artistic creation, then compare to the Resolve of the Viewer. after any relevant intimacies are put in place to either raise or lower Resolve. .
    Last edited by Tymeaus Jalynsfein; 02-11-2020, 12:40 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lioness
    replied
    Passion-Inflaming Artistry is an important precident because allowing someone to sculpt a statue that’s communicating a complex message irrespective of language or literacy and constantly trying to brainwashing everyone who sees it until someone covers it up or smashes it is bullshit good.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X