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  • #46
    So, I've had yet further confirmation I'm an idiot. I've wondered openly why Water Dragon-Scale Shield is so seemingly niche (I.e. works off full defence rather than something universally applicable) compared to the other elements.

    How Flame Warden Stance works has finally re-registered in my thick skull. Sadly, my brain has now spewed out the below as a result.

    This is pure, possibly extremely obvious to everyone else, theory-crafting. I'm not advocating that this is anything anyone sane would want or be able to use in play, but bear with me, is this actually kosher?

    1. Be a Water Immaculate with both maxed out Water Dragon and Melee. Take advantage of the fact that your MA's form weapons are worn to wield both Razor Claws and Empyrean Aegis (Five-Dragon Arsenal would help with the attunement costs).

    2. Set up Flame-Warden Stance (not really necessary as Guardian Gale Technique does the same thing, but it'd probably be useful to save motes while defending one especially important character in a protracted fight).

    3. Next turn, use Flowing Water Defence to flurry a Water Dragon attack with a full defence. Ideally hit something nice and soft, you'll need a lot of initiative for the steps below.

    4. Should anyone attack any of your allies who are up to medium range from you, use FWS or GGT as appropriate to intercept the attack with your full defence boosted Melee parry, using as many of Melee's multitude of defence boosters as you have/can afford:

    - Use DSS's Water and Air/Fire/Wood variations to inflict onslaught, cap-break your parry, steal initiative and/or poison them.
    - Use Graceful Flowing Defence to negate onslaught penalties as you intercept every single attack intended for your party. An E2, Dex 5, Melee 5, specialty having DB with a full defence, one-point stunt and Empyrean Aegis has a parry of 10. With the Air and Water DSS variant, GFD, Flame-Borne Interception and/or the Excellency they can hit a parry of 14 while also ignoring 3 points of penalty to it, even before you start thinking about willpower.
    - Throw in Blinding Spark Distraction, Rumbling Earth Rebuke, whatever else you've got, for gravy. (Disclaimer: you won't be able to afford any of them.)

    5. Let your allies dedicate all their resources to attacks, safe in the knowledge your insane parry is keeping them safe. Pray you keep the Stoking Bonfire Style discount and beg as many of your allies as you can to learn Dragon-Kin Empowerment to keep your motes topped up.

    6. Profit...?

    --

    I mean, it's ridiculously impractical and unsustainable in terms of initiative and mote costs, but it seems the idea of making a withering attack using whatever Water Dragon/Tiger/Centipede nightmare combo you want AND protecting your entire party with a parry most Solars would envy while also poisoning your opponents and stealing their initiative etc etc etc is theoretically possible for DBs...?

    (Goes away to reassess life choices.)
    Last edited by Moss Reynholm; 11-06-2020, 05:32 AM.

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    • #47
      Don’t use so many charms to defend. They need to attack the ward, not you, so even just a parry of 9 (6 base, 1 weapon, 1 stunt, 2 full defense, -1 stunt), plus an ally hitting 5 or so is near unhittable. That makes it a lot more affordable mote-wise.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by autXautY View Post
        Don’t use so many charms to defend. They need to attack the ward, not you, so even just a parry of 9 (6 base, 1 weapon, 1 stunt, 2 full defense, -1 stunt), plus an ally hitting 5 or so is near unhittable. That makes it a lot more affordable mote-wise.
        You're completely right in that you wouldn't really be looking to pop all of this nonsense at once, was just trying to contemplate what was possible when you go all out if your party was fighting Octavian or something. Finagaling Flame-Borne Interception and SBS to maximise your efficiency is probably all you should realistically be looking to do defensively.

        Aware this combo may have been obvious to everyone ages ago too, it just leapt out at me recently as especially disgusting in terms of what a DB can do at the top end.

        That said, it comes down to the interpretation of the worn tag and the ready weapon action. We've always read it that you can make an attack with a normal readied weapon or a natural weapon without penalty (i.e. if you make an unarmed attack one turn you don't then have to ready your sword to attack with it the next as it's still readied), and thus the fact the worn tag makes weapons count as natural means this by RAW means you can do the same with such weapons too. Do other people play it that way too or just us?

        (It's like the rules as we see them were almost written for 2e's spear and razor claw-wielding Peleps Deled...)

        Even if it's rules-ok, I personally think it's cheesy, not sure the spirit/fluff of the game is best served by Water Dragon Immaculates only using their style weapons half the time to be optimal. Wouldn't advocate it as a build to actually use in a game.
        Last edited by Moss Reynholm; 11-06-2020, 07:47 AM.

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