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How can you make Chejop Kejak turn Gold Faction?

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  • #16
    You don't and he's going to die in like five years anyway. Dude has spent thousands--thousands of years running the Realm and making sure it works. You don't just stop doing that.

    Also, let's be real here: it's hard to remember given that the Solars are the "main character" splat, but Kejak had completely legitimate reasons for the things he did. The Solars were literally insane tyrants ruining everything. There is zero proof they won't be again as far as he knows. People treat the Usurpation like the Sids and DB's just murdered innocent Solars (and therefore you can convince Kejak he was wrong). Kejak can just bring up a history of Awful Shit Solars Did to anyone trying to make him regret his decision.

    Which is why my Eclipse when he finally got to meet him didn't attack him or even blame him, he just said "Thanks, asshole", and then bounced, lmao

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    • #17
      He has had thousands of years to become set in his mindset, the only thing that seems likely to have a shot is an earlier posts suggestion of trying to get him to decide the new solars can be managed so that they don't grow into lunatics like the last batch.


      Exalted Whose Name is Carved in Leaves of Jade

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      • #18
        No! You misunderstood me. I didn’t mean the Solars were really framed. That would destroy the tragedy of the setting. I mean convince Chejop Kejak that the Ebon Dragon framed the Solars. He is a being of death and darkness. People are always willing to believe the worst of him.

        I read the 3e corebook and What Fire Has Wrought. There’s like nothing at all in either of those about the individual Yozis. The Ebon Dragon would make the perfect bogeyman.

        Come on. Isn’t the idea of framing somebody for framing somebody else kinda cool? 😊


        “It is a far far better thing I do than I have ever done...” Sidney Carton’s last line before going to the guillotine to save his True Love and her husband

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        • #19
          On second thought, it’s unlikely someone who lived through the excesses and mad Solars of the First Age could be convinced the whole thing was faked.


          “It is a far far better thing I do than I have ever done...” Sidney Carton’s last line before going to the guillotine to save his True Love and her husband

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          • #20
            I don't think you could convince him the reasons for the Great Prophecy were faked.
            Where you might be able to gain some leverage is if you can prove some of the Bronze Faction who voted in the Great Convention had been in service of an outside power that wished to weaken the Exalted Host such as the Yozis or Neverborn.


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            • #21
              Originally posted by Frostav View Post
              You don't and he's going to die in like five years anyway. Dude has spent thousands--thousands of years running the Realm and making sure it works. You don't just stop doing that.
              ...
              Worth noting that along with "Ebon Dragon is embodiement of Evil", "Chejob will drop dead any minute" was also a bit of a 2eism. In his first ficiton piece from 1e, he thought he still had a century or two to him.


              And stuff.
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              • #22
                Originally posted by Frostav View Post
                You don't and he's going to die in like five years anyway. Dude has spent thousands--thousands of years running the Realm and making sure it works. You don't just stop doing that.
                You know, I recall a certain other story where an old man was due to die after a lifetime spent running an exploitative business. It admittedly took quite an ordeal for him to change his ways, but he did stop.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Lioness View Post
                  I don't think you could convince him the reasons for the Great Prophecy were faked.
                  Where you might be able to gain some leverage is if you can prove some of the Bronze Faction who voted in the Great Convention had been in service of an outside power that wished to weaken the Exalted Host such as the Yozis or Neverborn.
                  That’s kind of what I was thinking. But you put it in better words than I did. Do you think the Ebon Dragon specifically could’ve been responsible?


                  “It is a far far better thing I do than I have ever done...” Sidney Carton’s last line before going to the guillotine to save his True Love and her husband

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                  • #24
                    I see the Ebon Dragon as the Demon Lover, the great seducer.


                    “It is a far far better thing I do than I have ever done...” Sidney Carton’s last line before going to the guillotine to save his True Love and her husband

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Penelope View Post

                      That’s kind of what I was thinking. But you put it in better words than I did. Do you think the Ebon Dragon specifically could’ve been responsible?
                      Chejop didn't work alone. Besides, Sidereals have perfect defenses against mental attacks. An attack by the Ebon Dragon (how the hell does he do it from inside Malfeas?) would just be shrugged off, and its quite possible that Chejop would hit him with a Sidereal martial art to turn him inside out.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Frostav View Post
                        You don't and he's going to die in like five years anyway. Dude has spent thousands--thousands of years running the Realm and making sure it works. You don't just stop doing that.
                        The premise of this thread is not that he just stops doing it.

                        It is that he is convinced to stop by player characters.

                        The most likely candidates of which are Solar player characters.

                        The social prowess of Solars combined with being able to undermine his beliefs with positive examples that he has not possessed throughout those hundreds of years (definitely not even two thousand, so thousand singular plus change)? I should hope that there will not be Sidereal Charms that render him impervious to that. It's probably been easy enough to maintain the belief that Solars were rotten to the core when there were hardly any around to provide counter examples.

                        Not a sure thing by any means, there are prejudices and old habits that a person can double down on through just about anything, and even Solars find a challenge to overcome. But the tools identifiably exist within system and setting, and ought to be recognised in such a discussion.

                        The opening post regards it as a task more epic than one engaging the Neverborn, but I should think far from it. For though I speak it to you, I think Chejop is but a man, as I am. The violet smells to him as it doth to me, in his nakedness he appears but a man. Therefore, his fears, out of doubt, be of the same relish as ours are.


                        I have approximate knowledge of many things.
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                        • #27
                          Accelerator the Ebon Dragon is a godlike entity. More powerful than most gods and older than all of them. He probably could defeat even the oldest Sidereal regardless of what the rules say about “perfect” defenses. And even if he is trapped in Hell (which isn’t called Malfeas anymore), he is certainly capable of indirectly manipulating events in Creation.


                          “It is a far far better thing I do than I have ever done...” Sidney Carton’s last line before going to the guillotine to save his True Love and her husband

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Penelope View Post
                            Accelerator the Ebon Dragon is a godlike entity. More powerful than most gods and older than all of them. He probably could defeat even the oldest Sidereal regardless of what the rules say about “perfect” defenses. And even if he is trapped in Hell (which isn’t called Malfeas anymore), he is certainly capable of indirectly manipulating events in Creation.
                            Nope. Still transcendent demigods. Primordials being able to power through perfect defenses makes the game invalid and lose coherence.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Penelope View Post
                              That’s kind of what I was thinking. But you put it in better words than I did. Do you think the Ebon Dragon specifically could’ve been responsible?
                              Sure, he only really needs a sufficiently connected double agent at the Great Convention.

                              He doesn't need to be the super-duper secret true architect of the Usurpation just someone who did enough to ensure it happened that if Chejop Kejak was confronted with evidence his faith in the plan might be shaken enough for Exalted social-fu to work its magic.


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                              Please spare a thought for updating the Exalted wiki.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Lioness View Post
                                Sure, he only really needs a sufficiently connected double agent at the Great Convention.

                                He doesn't need to be the super-duper secret true architect of the Usurpation just someone who did enough to ensure it happened that if Chejop Kejak was confronted with evidence his faith in the plan might be shaken enough for Exalted social-fu to work its magic.
                                Thank you. That makes a lot of sense.


                                “It is a far far better thing I do than I have ever done...” Sidney Carton’s last line before going to the guillotine to save his True Love and her husband

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