Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Ex3 Elementals/Ghosts: Please be useful.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Ex3 Elementals/Ghosts: Please be useful.

    So I'm just looking at the demon list in Exalted wiki and the 1st demon column is HUGE while the page for Elemental and Ghost look like some kind of abandoned city. Is there any weird reason that Demon is more popular than Ghost/Elemental that I don't know of ?

    I know that Elementals is a bunch of spirits with disorganized powers and theme along with verrryyy vague tie to their elements, their fluff is just......kinda meh compare to Demon (Chicken Hooker < Purple Hooker FYI). How am I suppose to learn the spell when EVERY Water Elemental DIE the moment they step out of the water!

    Ghost ,on the other hands, simultaneously suffer from being constantly job by the Deathlords awesomeness/having to live in the most boring Realm of Existant/having horrible and broken Mechanic (not to mention Summon Ghost forget that it's in Exalted and not WoD, why does I have to know the name of prostitute ghost #245 to summon it again ? )

    So what can we do to make these pitiful spirit more interesting in Third Edition or should I just hug my Neomah when Ex3 come rollin'
    Last edited by Jen; 11-19-2013, 01:16 PM.


    The no.1 fan of Demetheus. I also draw Exalted things and is looking for commission works ~

  • #2
    Elementals are actually pretty damned useful; people just don't like summoning them as much because of the lesser duration of service, the consequences for abusing them, and the fact that a greater elemental that you try and summon can just send a lesser minion instead. On the upside, since they're not imprisoned, if they take a liking to you (or you set up some kind of lasting deal), they can stay in your service longer, and any elemental can potentially be called to your service with an Emerald Circle spell.

    IMO, it's also harder to homebrew an elemental than a demon. Might just be me.

    Comment


    • #3
      I'd like to see more ghosts changes by exposure to the Labyrinth; not necessarily monsters, but just different varieties. I'd also like to see a lot more of the ghosts of non-human species who perished in the Primordial War or who were exterminated by the victorious Exalted following the war. The 2E Underworld book touches on the Alaun in their Bastion and I would love to see more of that kind of material (now that I think of it, there's also that group of time-locked Dragon Kings who survived the fall of the First Age in the Underworld).

      I would love to see more mysterious ghosts like the Dual Monarchy and perhaps even strange beings similar to Underworld Elementals. Ash Striders, Pyrefilies, et cetera.


      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
        IMO, it's also harder to homebrew an elemental than a demon. Might just be me.
        They are no harder than a demon. That said, homebrewing a good type of creature can be hard. You need a firm concept before you start.



        Masters of the Industrial Elements
        Upon the Rock of Tradition: The Memorial Exalted
        Ghosts: A Revision (2nd Edition)
        The Underworld (3rd Edition)
        ​From The Crucible: Crafting As A Struggle

        Comment


        • #5
          I think it all comes down to wordcount. A lot of wordcount has been expended on demons, Malfeas, and of course the Infernal Exalted, and as such demons are accorded a much richer background than elementals or ghosts. Ghosts have the Underworld, true, but they don't really have a lot of variety and don't play much of a part in the history or setting of the Underworld- that's more the realm of the Neverborn, the Abyssals and the Deathlords. Elementals actually have a stunning amount of variety, but we don't really see them do anything, and they don't have a particular Exalt associated with them, so they don't really feel like they have a background to draw from.

          It might help to just spend a bit more time seeing Ghosts and Elementals in Creation and beyond, what kind of things they do, and what forms they take. That way, we might turn a bit from Malfeas to explore the rest of the setting.


          "We do not quit playing because we grow old, we grow old because we quit playing." - Oliver Wendell Holmes

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by wulf View Post
            I'd like to see more ghosts changes by exposure to the Labyrinth; not necessarily monsters, but just different varieties. I'd also like to see a lot more of the ghosts of non-human species who perished in the Primordial War or who were exterminated by the victorious Exalted following the war. The 2E Underworld book touches on the Alaun in their Bastion and I would love to see more of that kind of material (now that I think of it, there's also that group of time-locked Dragon Kings who survived the fall of the First Age in the Underworld).

            I would love to see more mysterious ghosts like the Dual Monarchy and perhaps even strange beings similar to Underworld Elementals. Ash Striders, Pyrefilies, et cetera.
            Masters of Jade had a great ghost-species working for the Timeless Order. I'd appreciate seeing some more like that.
            And also more kickass named NPC Ghosts.


            I used to know things. Forbidden things.

            Comment


            • #7
              I've had some good experiences with Elementals. They can, in fact, be pretty cool. It just takes a bit more work than demons because you have to write up new ones a lot of the time.

              Ghosts are similar but require even more work. Still, there's some darn good ideas to steal from RL mythology for ghostly foes and allies.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by MrInsecure View Post
                Ghosts have the Underworld, true, but they don't really have a lot of variety and don't play much of a part in the history or setting of the Underworld-
                This here needs to change. Ghosts are the main populace of the Underworld. Ghosts linger on through passions and fetters, each living their own drama. They're the paupers, the kings, and the engineers of the Underworld. There are more ghosts in the Underworld then there are people in Creation. It boggles my mind that the Underworld and ghosts have been portrayed as boring and lacking variety

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jen View Post
                  So I'm just looking at the demon list in Exalted wiki and the 1st demon column is HUGE while the page for Elemental and Ghost look like some kind of abandoned city. Is there any weird reason that Demon is more popular than Ghost/Elemental that I don't know of ?

                  I know that Elementals is a bunch of spirits with disorganized powers and theme along with verrryyy vague tie to their elements, their fluff is just......kinda meh compare to Demon (Chicken Hooker < Purple Hooker FYI). How am I suppose to learn the spell when EVERY Water Elemental DIE the moment they step out of the water!

                  Ghost ,on the other hands, simultaneously suffer from being constantly job by the Deathlords awesomeness/having to live in the most boring Realm of Existant/having horrible and broken Mechanic (not to mention Summon Ghost forget that it's in Exalted and not WoD, why does I have to know the name of prostitute ghost #245 to summon it again ? )

                  So what can we do to make these pitiful spirit more interesting in Third Edition or should I just hug my Neomah when Ex3 come rollin'

                  Oh yes please. I think elementals are being underestimated here due to some of the advantages they have over demons. But Ghosts man ghosts are like universally useless which makes the concept of the crazy sorcerer who has a dozen beings summoned hard to pull off.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well, with the exception of those ghost powers that are actually problematic.

                    Like the one where you make money that, despite you having literally just made it yourself, is somehow legitimate and not counterfeit.

                    Pull that crap in a place where currency is actually minted and tracked, like the Realm, and give everyone aneurysms trying to puzzle that shit out.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Also, if you want your ST lynching you, establish a government whose base currency is artifacts. :P

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I wonder if Ghost will still be using Arcanoi like they did in Ex2 or will it be Spirit Charm like every other spirit (well, except the Fair Folk, but we all know how GWM suckass right ? )


                        The no.1 fan of Demetheus. I also draw Exalted things and is looking for commission works ~

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'm hoping for a major overhaul of Ghosts, especially the Arcanoi, which never seemed particularly powerful compared to the powers of the other supernatural beings of the Creationverse. (And there's something I never thought of: there's no good word for the entirety of the setting, Creation, Wyld, Underworld, Heaven, Autochthonia all together.)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by wulf View Post
                            I'd like to see more ghosts changes by exposure to the Labyrinth; not necessarily monsters, but just different varieties.
                            I don't know about the Labyrinth, but what I know you will get is ghosts changed simply as a function of their nature. Just look at the anacreons of the Timeless Order, whose ranks include a mummy full of spiders, a great legless fatso, and an owl composed of darkness, but who have no affiliation with the Neverborn or their nightmares.
                            They're creepy and monstrous simply because that's who (and what) they are.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jen View Post
                              I wonder if Ghost will still be using Arcanoi like they did in Ex2 or will it be Spirit Charm like every other spirit
                              As Spirits will not be using a universal set of Spirit Charms, I imagine ghosts will still be using Arcanoi. Albeit better executed Arcanoi than in 2e.


                              The EX3 What We Know Wiki, courtesy of Marin and JMobius
                              Nishkriya, the EX3 Freelancer Quotes Tracker, courtesy of Anathema and Moonwolf
                              The White Wolf Forum Archive, courtesy of The Dark Wizard and Sanctaphrax (see its Patreon)
                              Arrghus: There's also the Shepherd of the North Star, busily guiding the one thing in all the heavens that doesn't move.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X