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Reaction of the Unconquered Sun to the Great Curse?

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  • Reaction of the Unconquered Sun to the Great Curse?

    Ok, I’ve never played in 3rd Ed, so I am behind on all of the updated canon, but what should the response be from the UCS if he were to suddenly learn of the GC? He turned his back on Creation and nearly let the Great Contagion and the Fair Folk destroy it, all as a response to his Chosen’s behavior. So what happens if he learns that a lot of them were ultimately innocent of their crimes?

  • #2
    The updated canon has said very little about the Unconquered Sun, in an intentional bid to focus more on human stories. We know he turned his face away from the Solars, we know that he speaks to some new Solars, and we know that he chooses new Solars (though it’s unclear how conscious this is). I believe that any answers we gave would be headcanons.


    Hey, check out my first original RPG, Post-Mortem, here: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/307131/PostMortem

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    • #3
      Wait, he actively chooses Solars now? Didn’t 2E have some VERY good reasons why Autocthon made that impossible?

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      • #4
        It did. That change also made Exaltation feel more technical than awe-inspiring, and it made the UCS feel totally irrelevant to Solars’ lived experience. Maybe there’s still a tactical fallback option if the Solar-picker is killed, or maybe not! It hasn’t been discussed In 3E canon and, I would guess, never will be.


        Hey, check out my first original RPG, Post-Mortem, here: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/307131/PostMortem

        Or read my Exalted novella The Silence of Our Ancestors here: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...looded-Novella

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Mercurial View Post
          Wait, he actively chooses Solars now? Didn’t 2E have some VERY good reasons why Autocthon made that impossible?
          The main reason was Unnatural Mental Influence and Primordials being able to mind-control gods "just because".

          That's not a thing in 3E.

          And if you kill someone because you are crazy, you still killed someone. Dad might be sad that he never saw your mental health problem and got you the help you need, but it doesn't bring your victim back to life.

          Cursed or not, the Exalted aren't innocent.


          Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

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          • #6
            To me, it made Exaltation feel like it was something so grand that even the UCS had no real power over it. But I see where you are coming from. 2E was supposed to be incredibly arrogant and grandiose, and I understand that 3E is supposed to be about human sized adventures. Maybe level 20 Fighter humans, but still ultimately humans, like Tarzan and Hercules.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
              The main reason was Unnatural Mental Influence and Primordials being able to mind-control gods "just because".

              That's not a thing in 3E.

              And if you kill someone because you are crazy, you still killed someone. Dad might be sad that he never saw your mental health problem and got you the help you need, but it doesn't bring your victim back to life.

              Cursed or not, the Exalted aren't innocent.
              Depends on how you define ignorant. If your enemies were secretly pumping your water full of drugs that were guaranteed to warp your mind in dangerous ways, should you really be considered responsible for the consequences?

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              • #8
                So here's a take: maybe when someone tells him about the Great Curse, they realize from his response that on some level, conscious or unconscious, he already knew. He may or may not have known exactly why his Exalted were so unstable, but he's had a long time to think about the ways it might have been his fault. What stronger reason might there be to retreat from the world, to hide his face not just in disappointment but in shame?


                Hey, check out my first original RPG, Post-Mortem, here: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/307131/PostMortem

                Or read my Exalted novella The Silence of Our Ancestors here: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...looded-Novella

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mercurial View Post
                  Wait, he actively chooses Solars now? Didn’t 2E have some VERY good reasons why Autocthon made that impossible?
                  The geas was supposed to be that the gods couldn't kill the Primordials, not that they couldn't disobey their commands. Making the Exaltations autonomous to respond to a change that didn't need to be made is not what I'd call a "good reason."


                  He/him

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
                    The geas was supposed to be that the gods couldn't kill the Primordials, not that they couldn't disobey their commands. Making the Exaltations autonomous to respond to a change that didn't need to be made is not what I'd call a "good reason."
                    What if the gods were geased not simply to do the Primordials no direct harm, but also had failsafes built into them so they could be ordered to stop if they were doing something indirectly harmful? Creation wasn’t tailor made to the specifications of any one titan, so they probably left it so the “indirect harm” part of the geas required a specific command from the Titans since that would let them first debate with each other about what constituted “indirect harm” or “offensiveness” on a level that was unacceptable to any one titan’s sensibilities. Remember, the Ebon Dragon hates everything on principal, and will try to collapse any system he can get his hands on because that is his nature.
                    Last edited by Mercurial; 10-11-2020, 10:00 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mercurial View Post

                      What if the gods were geased not simply to do the Primordials no direct harm, but also had failsafes built into them so they could be ordered to stop if they were doing something indirectly harmful? Creation wasn’t tailor made to the specifications of any one titan, so they probably left it requiring a specific command from the Titans since that would let them first debate with each other about what constituted “indirect harm” or “offensiveness” on a level that was unacceptable. Remember, the Ebon Dragon hates everything on principal, and will try to collapse any system he can get his hands on because that is his nature.
                      That's 2E Ebon Dragon. Little is known about him in Ex3 except what was written in 1E: that he forever tests the limits of his cage, and that he loves the doomed and dying.


                      Hey, check out my first original RPG, Post-Mortem, here: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/307131/PostMortem

                      Or read my Exalted novella The Silence of Our Ancestors here: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...looded-Novella

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Dex Davican View Post
                        That's 2E Ebon Dragon. Little is known about him in Ex3 except what was written in 1E: that he forever tests the limits of his cage, and that he loves the doomed and dying.
                        Despite all of its many bugs, 2E will always be THE definitive Exalted to me.

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                        • #13
                          He may decide to share that information with Luna, the Maidens, and the sleeping Elemental Dragons.

                          Then, he may decide to do nothing, as Creation is the domain of the Exalted, and all the Solars are currently there. Buuut... he may command Lytek, as the King of Heaven, to take action when a Solar wanders into Heaven. The first therapeutics would be, of course, experimental. But nobody's as full of hubris and has the kind of time as the Unconquered Sun, so I imagine after many (possibly fatal) trials, they get it right.

                          How this process (and the deaths thereby) impact the reborn Solars' view of Heaven while they attempt to reassert some kind of influence in Creation is for the Solar players to decide... if they're playing a 2e-inspired, 'rattle the cage of the gods'-themed campaign. It may never come up in your 3e campaign, with all that time spent with swords and sandals!


                          The Sack of Chiaroscuro - In a southern satrapy a Lunar elder must escape the results of his war-gambit against the Realm, but faces the city's mother-god as he tries to flee.

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                          • #14
                            The misunderstanding that UCS can't choose solars even while his main body is preoccupied with other things is a fundamental misunderstanding of the fact that Exaltation is a capital-M Miracle, with all the religious connotations thereof, in-setting. The Incarnae are existences above and apart from ordinary gods and thus their awareness need not be limited to a singular perspective. The Exaltations will continue to circulate even after their deaths, and those empowered by them will still be considered Chosen.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Dex Davican View Post
                              That's 2E Ebon Dragon. Little is known about him in Ex3 except what was written in 1E: that he forever tests the limits of his cage, and that he loves the doomed and dying.
                              Really important question and here is as good a place to ask it as any

                              I’ve never actually read the 2E core book. Is it true that a lot of the 2E lore has been retconned by 3E?


                              “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her.

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