How terrible is the loss of white wolf forums?

[Cheshire Cat]

I only lurked on the WW forums, but the whole thing still irks me. We were basically under the impression the forums would come back, as would the wiki. I think most of us would've been fine making copies of the stuff we really used, it's just that the way it was communicated we assumed the content would not be lost - and unless I missed something, this has never been properly addressed by OPP, and obviously I don't expect miracles, I would've been fine with "oops", or "it didn't work, because"; just felt like we've been left in limbo.
I keep thinking I must've missed something, because for the most part I feel OPP has been communicating really well with the community, but I've never found anything.
Either way, the loss of all the home brew is still sadface. Many people have shared their backups, and it's nice of them, but it's really hard to navigate someone else's backup.

So yeah. Huge loss.

[Steamfunk]

Lots of discussion there was trash but it seemed to enable a sort of manic creative energy and collaborative spirit that is just kinda dead for the product now.

[Accelerator]

Lots of discussion there was trash but it seemed to enable a sort of manic creative energy and collaborative spirit that is just kinda dead for the product now.

Yeah.

There doesn't seem to be much activity here.

[TheCountAlucard]

To be fair, there wasn't an Exalted Discord back in those days, or much of the activity would've been there instead.

[Sandact6]

Even then I don't feel there's near the amount of homebrew put out for 3e compared to something like 2e. I wonder if the 2e guys felt the same about 1e, as the unofficial wiki is nuts.

[Steamfunk]

Even then I don't feel there's near the amount of homebrew put out for 3e compared to something like 2e. I wonder if the 2e guys felt the same about 1e, as the unofficial wiki is nuts.

Truly a First Age, Shogunate, Age of Sorrows kind of situation.

The 3E fandom really does feel completely sedated though in a way that I can't quite put my finger on.

[Sandact6]

Maybe it will pick up in the future, I'm not sure. I wasn't around for early 2e (I only came around when Sidereals were released, though I remember seeing discussion threads of the 2e core on 4chan). I know back then most homebrew was for 1e, because... well it simply had more material out for it. A lot of the old 1e vets seemed to retire rather than migrate.

[Astralporing]

Truly a First Age, Shogunate, Age of Sorrows kind of situation.

The 3E fandom really does feel completely sedated though in a way that I can't quite put my finger on.

Frankly, as far as mechanic goes, i get that the 3e is way more functional, and that 2e was problematic in some parts and plain broken in others. The problem is, 2e mechanic felt more interesting. 3E may be more coherent and functional, but it's also like ten times more boring. I just don't feel any desire to tinker with it. And of my RPG group i was among those that were into it the most.
As for the narrative/lore discussions, 3e isn't all that different from 2e. Sure, there are differences, but they are relatively small - it's a slightly different approach, but to the same world. So, most of the stuff that has been discussed once is still relevant. Except it's gone, lost with the old forums. Still, repeating old arguments again, just to have them present here as well is likely not something a lot of people like to do.

Also, the time between 2e got cancelled and 3e got released was just too long. A lot of fire just died out (and remember, we're still not even halfway back to where we were then). And losing the old forums and wiki didn;t let us continue the old 2e discussions in the meantime. Which is probably what the intention was, but it definitely didn;t help in the long run. Maybe at some point some new players will pick up the slack, but we're not there yet.

[Synapse]

I disagree on the boring part. I have felt (and still do nearly every game) the rush of satisfaction of mechanics pushing a vibe working just right for me and my crew.

The production delay definitely played a part, although without full sales numbers we can't tell how well that correlates.

This isn't exclusive to this game, either. Other games (and other groups, some of it also creative) I'm in have notably petered out in sheer output and interactivity when a major shift kicked a bunch of people out.

[Reighnhell]

Re: Fandom

I have been in the TTRPG hobby for a long while, and I have definitely noticed many formerly robust online gaming communities seem to have tapered off over the last 5-10 year. So it's definitely not just Exalted.

If I had to venture a guess as to why, its probably several things.

Industry Downturn - The whole TTRPG space when through a rough patch, with many popular companies closing or being sold, or going extended periods of time without publishing content. Its during this period that White Wolf sold to CCP Games (who sold it again to Paradox), and Onyx Path secured the publishing duties for CofD, WoD20, and Exalted. Honestly, I think the industry is only recently getting back to a healthy place with the popularity of D&D 5E bringing new blood into the hobby.

Slower Release Pace - Related to the overall downturn, game material is coming out at a far slower pace then it did during the mid 2000's D20 boom. For Exalted, its going from books being kicked out at an almost frantic pace by the relatively well-funded White Wolf (later CCP), to the much (much) smaller Onyx Path's comparatively slow pace. As much as I like the more deliberate and thoughtful development process, seeing a new book only once every few months doesn't keep the hype train at full speed.

Edition Bleed - It is pretty common these days for the more popular rpgs to see a new edition every few years. And with it a fresh round of Edition Wars! In addition to that, I often see what I think of as "Edition Bleed". Essentially, many players choose not to update to the new edition, which splinters the audience because the group that favors one edition starts to lose the ability to communicate with the group that favors another. Worse still is when the players base feels abandoned or betrayed by the publisher; those players may turn away from the game entirely!

Changing Technology - Forums and message boards have long been a common place for nerds like us to share our loves and hates about the games we play.But with the advent of social media and other alternative platforms, much of the fan base no longer congregates in the same places. Fewer participants makes any online discussion less lively.

usual disclaimers (Only My Opinion, Mileage May Vary,etc,etc) apply.

[Lioness]

Even then I don't feel there's near the amount of homebrew put out for 3e compared to something like 2e. I wonder if the 2e guys felt the same about 1e, as the unofficial wiki is nuts.

I feel the rise of google drive has its role to play there. There's a lot of half-finished ideas and characters that people never got to play on the unofficial wiki but because it's there in the open it's available and representative of the fun people were having with the system, but these days that kind of content tends to not get found unless you ask for it.

[Ghosthead]

Above comment by Reighn seems right, but I'd add that, "more boring" or not, 3e's mechanics fairly objectively have a different vibe in that it's more of an aspiration to "tight" systems built of incremental, careful, limited effects, rather than loose systems of simple, often absolute (often wonky) effects. Somewhat natural then for more people to be shy on creating something that has a feel of upsetting a "finely tuned balance" or has limited effects.

They also seem publish tons of material every time they do a book, so perhaps less room or need to add to published material.

It has been about 4-5 years since players had sight of the Ex3 rules; that's like the length of the entire First Edition. There was quite a bit of creation at start of Ex3 (despite the above), but it can't go on for ever.

As a final point, expanding on that, I'd suggest that writing fan conversions of old splats perhaps consumed a lot of the energy of those 3e edition adopters who were also mechanical creators (people like wastevens and crumplepunch), so maybe that burned out some of those folk a bit.

I do expect 3e will see a bit of a creation Renaissance when the Exigents is published and some of those creative people who've gone to other things decide to try out the tools it gives to make new Exalted... But otherwise makes sense to me that it's quiet.

[Astralporing]

I disagree on the boring part. I have felt (and still do nearly every game) the rush of satisfaction of mechanics pushing a vibe working just right for me and my crew.

We might be talking about different things.
The current system is built around a ton of charms creating a working whole. While the finished construct may be interesting, and thinking about how to connect a set of charms into a bigger coherent whole might be interesting, most of each individual charms are completely bland.In 2e, when my character got enough xp to buy a new charm, i usually had a ton of interesting stuff to choose from. In 3e, it is not so. I'm simply working towards buying out another of the pieces i need for the final result.

3e creates a tight and well-working system made of a lot of individually uninteresting pieces that complement each other well. 2e was a hodgepodge if individual effects, that might not have connected to each other well, but were individually colorful and interesting.

In 2e, you could get a number of charms, and then think about the different interesting ways you could use them, both separately and together. In 3e, you need to first think of what you want to achieve, and then decide what specific charms you need to get there. It is a completely different approach, one where individual charms are completely unimportant, and only the big picture matters.

In effect, when i think of 3e, i simply can't remember charms, their names and what they do. In 2e, i could easily do that.

Thus, 3e is, for me, far less interesting. Even if i acknowledge that as a system it is working far better.

[Isator Levi]

We might be talking about different things.
The current system is built around a ton of charms creating a working whole. While the finished construct may be interesting, and thinking about how to connect a set of charms into a bigger coherent whole might be interesting, most of each individual charms are completely bland.In 2e, when my character got enough xp to buy a new charm, i usually had a ton of interesting stuff to choose from. In 3e, it is not so. I'm simply working towards buying out another of the pieces i need for the final result.

3e creates a tight and well-working system made of a lot of individually uninteresting pieces that complement each other well. 2e was a hodgepodge if individual effects, that might not have connected to each other well, but were individually colorful and interesting.

In 2e, you could get a number of charms, and then think about the different interesting ways you could use them, both separately and together. In 3e, you need to first think of what you want to achieve, and then decide what specific charms you need to get there. It is a completely different approach, one where individual charms are completely unimportant, and only the big picture matters.

In effect, when i think of 3e, i simply can't remember charms, their names and what they do. In 2e, i could easily do that.

Thus, 3e is, for me, far less interesting. Even if i acknowledge that as a system it is working far better.

Have you read Lunars?

[Steamfunk]

Giving credit to the community, though. The large homebrew projects we have gotten have been really good. The various system extensions and Alchemicals from Sandact6 are a couple personal faves and, as far as I'm concerned, A Clutch of Dragons is probably the better choice for running deebs.