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  • #31
    The Exalted Discord seems pretty alive and well, with plenty of late night conversations. I wonder if part of the reason this forum feels relatively empty is migration.


    Hey, check out my first original RPG, Post-Mortem, here: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/307131/PostMortem

    Or read my Exalted novella The Silence of Our Ancestors here: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...looded-Novella

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    • #32
      Some of it definitely is.


      Check my Exalted homebrew!

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Astralporing View Post
        In 2e, when my character got enough xp to buy a new charm, i usually had a ton of interesting stuff to choose from.

        [...]

        2e was a hodgepodge if individual effects, that might not have connected to each other well, but were individually colorful and interesting.

        In 2e, you could get a number of charms, and then think about the different interesting ways you could use them, both separately and together.
        You know, on reflection, while I'm not sure this is the thread to do it I do think this is a sentiment that bears some examination. It comes up a lot, and I find myself wondering if it's entirely an accurate recollection of Second Edition.

        At least as far as Solars go, but Solars are where this line of thinking originated and it's what I expect is being referred to here.

        I remember that it took me quite some time to figure out exactly what the Second Edition version of Hypnotic Tongue Technique actually did. I finally realised that it was just "make your regular social attack count as Unnatural Mental Influence".

        I.e. If the target spends Willpower to resist your suggestion, you're allowed to try again.

        Contrast with the Third Edition version in which you can implant a subliminal command that bypasses some normal restrictions of social influence, goes off in response to a trigger condition, and where the person doesn't fully recognise what they've done.

        Or, say, how people got pretty salty about dice tricks in Third Edition Melee, when Second Edition was limited to things like Hungry Tiger Technique (which was, what, double your attack roll successes?), Fire and Stones Strike (increase the damage you rolled), the multi-attack and counterattack Charms and defence penalty eliminators.

        I don't believe I've ever seen people express this complaint in terms of specific examples of Charms, so at best it leaves me wondering precisely what they're missing. It would be an easier complaint to engage with otherwise.


        I have approximate knowledge of many things.
        Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Accelerator View Post
          I have, yet again, tried to hunt down a collection of homebrew. This time she who lives in her name charms, with the links being on giant in the playground. And to my lack of surprise, the links in the homebrew doc are dead.
          Whose SWLIHN Charm set? They might still be around with a saved copy on their hard drive somewhere.



          Dead But Not Gone: Ghosts
          Ghosts: A Revision (2nd Edition)
          Masters of the Industrial Elements
          Upon the Rock of Tradition: The Memorial Exalted
          ​From The Crucible: Crafting As A Struggle

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          • #35
            Astralporing, that seems to match with part of John M's creative agenda for Ex3; making it feel that player characters did things while Charms were just an abstraction of how Essence allowed them to enhance themselves and achieve things, often by affecting another fairly abstract quantity (like Initiative etc). Against a Ex2 model that had reached a point of Charms as things that did concrete things *for* characters. (I'm paraphrasing what I remember here without implying judgment on whether this is correct, or wrong, or good, or bas).

            I think Ex3 also has the issue here of having what seem to be (to a glance at least) So Many Damn Charms in one place, with similar function, while dispensing with trees as a visual aid, to the point where it's not so easy to remember that "X is *the* Charm Solars have for Y" rather than one of a bunch of Charms which all do Y in slightly variable ways. Ex3 is kind of like that all over; stronger than prior editions at throwing out lots of dense content pitched at gameable levels, but not so many of the space-filling flourishes and empty space that really burn a lot of it into memory (the philosophy being, I guess, that if you don't remember all of it, that's OK, since you only need what you'll use).

            (I can't really blame Ex3 for this design; people wanted lots of immediately gameable content that they could mechanically explore for years, and the writers have given it to them under very challenging circumstances. Is the price of that something which is often very dense and unapproachable for new players while having enough repitition to be often unenthusing for long time fans? Probably to some extent. But then that's why Exalted: Essence is being launched.)

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Steamfunk View Post

              Truly a First Age, Shogunate, Age of Sorrows kind of situation.

              The 3E fandom really does feel completely sedated though in a way that I can't quite put my finger on.
              Because I’m not making a new Lunar thread every week or so.


              formerly Tornado Wolf, formerly Inugami

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

                I don't believe I've ever seen people express this complaint in terms of specific examples of Charms, so at best it leaves me wondering precisely what they're missing. It would be an easier complaint to engage with otherwise.
                For me, the difference wasn’t any individual Charm, but the aggregate effect of Charm design. I won’t say that 2E successfully made it so that every Charm would be worthwhile, but its general philosophy toward Charm design was to make each Charm a narrative permission to do something impactful. Early EX3’s Charm philosophy was more aggregate-focused: if you purchase X Charms on your way to the signature effect you want, you’ll be extremely competent at doing it. The system was built with tons of nooks and crannies for Charms to slot into, where 2E was built as more of a vehicle that you could pile Charms onto. This is most obvious in their respective Solar Craft Charmsets.


                Hey, check out my first original RPG, Post-Mortem, here: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/307131/PostMortem

                Or read my Exalted novella The Silence of Our Ancestors here: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...looded-Novella

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
                  Because I’m not making a new Lunar thread every week or so.
                  Wait, when was this period you just referred to in which it was weeks per thread and not threads per week?

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Dex Davican View Post
                    I mostly wish I’d saved the Ask the Unconquered Sun thread. I like to re-read my old work and I was proud of it, including the response it got. All my 2E homebrew, I saved.
                    I liked that thread too! I also miss the homebrew most too. One of the first things I learned getting into Exalted was how much effort some people put into writing Devil-Tiger charmsets despite how little guidance was given, which cemented me deciding Infernals were my favourite Exalts before even finding anyone to play with.

                    Someone-I think called Fitter Happier? Also wrote some sutras from the Shinma's perspective I really enjoyed, and sadly can't find anywhere. There was also an Ask Ligier thread that, amusingly, that while entertaining in it's own right was much shorter and sparser than the Ask the Unconquered Sun thread.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

                      You know, on reflection, while I'm not sure this is the thread to do it I do think this is a sentiment that bears some examination. It comes up a lot, and I find myself wondering if it's entirely an accurate recollection of Second Edition.

                      At least as far as Solars go, but Solars are where this line of thinking originated and it's what I expect is being referred to here.

                      I remember that it took me quite some time to figure out exactly what the Second Edition version of Hypnotic Tongue Technique actually did. I finally realised that it was just "make your regular social attack count as Unnatural Mental Influence".

                      I.e. If the target spends Willpower to resist your suggestion, you're allowed to try again.

                      Contrast with the Third Edition version in which you can implant a subliminal command that bypasses some normal restrictions of social influence, goes off in response to a trigger condition, and where the person doesn't fully recognise what they've done.

                      Or, say, how people got pretty salty about dice tricks in Third Edition Melee, when Second Edition was limited to things like Hungry Tiger Technique (which was, what, double your attack roll successes?), Fire and Stones Strike (increase the damage you rolled), the multi-attack and counterattack Charms and defence penalty eliminators.

                      I don't believe I've ever seen people express this complaint in terms of specific examples of Charms, so at best it leaves me wondering precisely what they're missing. It would be an easier complaint to engage with otherwise.
                      Sky-Breaker Throw was an E6 Martial Arts charm that with sufficient raw damage, let you hurl a target into another realm of existence. A sentiment I noticed on my arrival to this forum was the conceit I sensed from you and others that players value charms first and foremost from what they allow you to do in an actual game or are practically able to on a consistent basis. This hasn't been my experience talking to people on other forums than this one, lots of people like to have an epic scope for what charms could be capable of as well as what they're currently able to. And if many of those charms' best effects were gated at high essence, well there was the Lords of Creation supplemented as a license to start playing Elder Exalts who could access those effects right off the bat.

                      On the side of Melee charms, another interesting non-"pure dice trick" effect was Edge of Morning Sunlight which inflicts internal penalties with a flash of stunning light. Yet another was Blade Lair Discipline, which turned your gestures, mannerisms and glances into a -1 external penalty. I actually agree many Melee Charms could be summarised as "you can use X charm more often" or "you have more dice", but the fact was there were other effects which hinted at a more abstract communion between Solar and blade prowess than in 3e in which, for example, there is no equivalent to Burning Sky Apocalypse Strike or Heart-Eating Fist for Melee. I've heard the argument the banalty of Melee is intended to be supplemented by the power and uniqueness of Evocations from artifacts, to which I can only say Shang from Thunderbolt Fantasy is the most accurate representation of a Dawn I've seen in any media and he wins most of his fights with a fake wooden sword.

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                      • #41
                        What effects do you think Shang has done in the series that you can't do with Solar Melee as it stands, outside of maybe the more general overarching concept of some sort of 'Wield an Improvised weapon as if it was a normal sword, with a repurchase later to let you treat it as an artifact statline' as a buy-in charm to deal with the fact he's fighting demons and monsters with a stick?

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post

                          Because I’m not making a new Lunar thread every week or so.
                          And I cut myself free, mostly.

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                          • #43
                            There was an old 1CD on the wiki written by Vance back before he was famous, and it haunts me to this day not having saved a copy.


                            .

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Organ Boy View Post

                              Sky-Breaker Throw was an E6 Martial Arts charm that with sufficient raw damage, let you hurl a target into another realm of existence. A sentiment I noticed on my arrival to this forum was the conceit I sensed from you and others that players value charms first and foremost from what they allow you to do in an actual game or are practically able to on a consistent basis. This hasn't been my experience talking to people on other forums than this one, lots of people like to have an epic scope for what charms could be capable of as well as what they're currently able to. And if many of those charms' best effects were gated at high essence, well there was the Lords of Creation supplemented as a license to start playing Elder Exalts who could access those effects right off the bat.
                              Ohhhhh... This is an area where I feel a need to try and gently suggest that it's possible for there to be criticisms that are sincerely held but maybe... lacking in perspective. And to plead for such a suggestion not being regarded as a kind of attack.

                              Because I do think there are issues with a suggestion that the book is lacking because it doesn't put sufficiently impressive things off into the far future of character play or write from the outset for the sort of play experience that Second Edition didn't develop for years.

                              Originally posted by Organ Boy
                              On the side of Melee charms, another interesting non-"pure dice trick" effect was Edge of Morning Sunlight which inflicts internal penalties with a flash of stunning light. Yet another was Blade Lair Discipline, which turned your gestures, mannerisms and glances into a -1 external penalty.
                              Okay a penalty is technically distinct from a dice trick, but it's still in the same area of manipulating the game system. If a hypothetical person was ride-or-die on that distinction, that would be the kind of person I would ask to reflect on how reasonable that critique was.

                              Originally posted by Organ Boy
                              I actually agree many Melee Charms could be summarised as "you can use X charm more often" or "you have more dice", but the fact was there were other effects which hinted at a more abstract communion between Solar and blade prowess than in 3e in which, for example, there is no equivalent to Burning Sky Apocalypse Strike or Heart-Eating Fist for Melee.
                              I mean, we've still got Blazing Solar Bolt. Has familiarity bred contempt for the power to shoot a blaze of shearing light from one's weapon (which mechanically plays out as a special form of decisive attack that can be fairly powerful)?

                              Do you have any opinions on Immortal Blade Triumphant, i.e. the Charm that allows one to transfer anima into the weapon to make it impossible to disarm and convert damage dice into automatic successes (or add them on top of the rolled damage if the anima is expended into the attack)?

                              Mind, I think Heaven Sword Flash and Circle of Bright Reaving are not merely fairly powerful mechanically, they make for a pretty compelling image if one imagines how that sword has to flash about striking multiple people in an instant. Sure it's different from Brawl's upper end, but do we not want distinctions between the combat Abilities?

                              Originally posted by Organ Boy
                              I've heard the argument the banalty of Melee is intended to be supplemented by the power and uniqueness of Evocations from artifacts, to which I can only say Shang from Thunderbolt Fantasy is the most accurate representation of a Dawn I've seen in any media and he wins most of his fights with a fake wooden sword.
                              I second Flare's question as to what this character does that is outside the range of published Solar Charms. I feel as though most fictional depictions of high end sword fighting have a focus on speed and precision directed at an opponent.

                              My personal issue with World-Scarring Solar Glory was always the feeling that demolitions felt like a really weird place for sword fighting to develop up into. It's honestly the kind of thing that I always felt illustrated some of the distinct limitations of trying to create high Essence spaces for many of these Abilities to inhabit.

                              I also want to note that I've read some transcripts of First Edition writers offering their own ideas of Essence 6+, and it was generally things like "do something a lower Charm does, but without having to pay for it for a scene", which I find several issues with.


                              I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                              Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Flare View Post
                                What effects do you think Shang has done in the series that you can't do with Solar Melee as it stands, outside of maybe the more general overarching concept of some sort of 'Wield an Improvised weapon as if it was a normal sword, with a repurchase later to let you treat it as an artifact statline' as a buy-in charm to deal with the fact he's fighting demons and monsters with a stick?
                                Mind, a lot of demons and monsters aren't super durable once somebody gets past them being immaterial. In any case, Solar Melee gets several Charms specifically to enhance attacks against creatures of darkness, so it's still kind of the go-to combat Ability for that kind of fighter, assuming he's not really dependent on cutting the tops off of hills or something.


                                I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                                Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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