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At what Essence would Anathema become a serious menace to the Realm?

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  • At what Essence would Anathema become a serious menace to the Realm?

    Essence 2..Essence 3...Essence 4...Essence 5? Since it seems that Solars and Lunars grow in power at an exponential rate compared to Dragon Bloods, at what point would a Circle of Solars, or Lunars, become so powerful that toppling or overrunning the realm becomes a serious possibility? The main book says that most Anathema will reach Essence 3, with some reaching Essence 4 and the best reaching Essence 5. Essence 6 and beyond would be truly legendary. At what point would the Wild Hunt declare that even they might not be able to contain the Anathema at the gates?

  • DrLoveMonkey
    replied
    Originally posted by Colin_Fredericks View Post
    cheering for you to devastate the Realm.
    Not necessarily. The Realm is probably just right on the cusp of a massive civil war. Ancient weapons that can only be used ONCE are about to be triggered against enemy great houses, their militaries are about to be devastated against eachother, and their satrapies drained as the forces that have pressed the Lunars back to the edge of the world for centuries are drawn away. Then you nuke Lord's Crossing. At first the Lunars go "WOOO FUCK YEAH! Do it again!" but then you can't do it again for a year. Now they all want to kill you because you've just turned this, into this.

    I might not want Mnemon on the throne, or V'Neef on the throne, or whoever on the throne, but some souless demon just unleashed the greatest terror attack in the history of the Realm on my whole culture and revealed exactly how dumb it is that I considered my third cousin a bigger threat than the fangs at our gate.

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  • Colin_Fredericks
    replied
    Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post

    You want to rend fate then commit 30m for a week? Do you want teacup ninjas? Because that's how you get teacup ninjas.
    I mean, sensibly, yes, Sidereals track you down and send the Wild Hunt after you. Rules-as-written thus far, no - there are only a handful of Lunars who have a chance of spotting it and they're all going to be cheering for you to devastate the Realm.

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  • DrLoveMonkey
    replied
    This is also particularly important because outside of a very small number of games Exalted is a group game, so it’s important that the group feels like they’re working as a team, and a really bad way to facilitate that is to give every character the ability to just do whatever they want and never need rely on eachother at all.

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  • DrLoveMonkey
    replied
    That’s a very fitting start to a story. Or a Warcraft 3 style opening with Medivh style intro where the character goes into the deliberative and proclaims of a great doom coming and then walks out. I think it’s great, but I don’t see that we gain basically anything by saying that a Solar, by their nature, can easily do that with no help to the Realm Deliberative. Maybe they find a senator that wants to help out, and they get leverage on one of the guard captains and any number of other things.

    It’s like, if there’s a cult to a god that thinks the god will save them from the armies of the empire when they come, and you want to convince them they can’t. Going to the god’s sanctum, kicking their ass and dragging them out in front of the whole city to show them how very vincible they are is an AWESOME opener to a game. Nooooot so much of the god they’re worshiping is the Unconquered Sun. You don’t bust down the Jade Pleasure Dome, shitkick the king of the Incarna, and drag him to Creation in session one, no, not even as one of the mighty Solar Exalted. The UCS needs to retain some manner of respect that shows he’s a force to be reckoned with.

    Now, EVENTUALLY going to the Jade Dome, shitkicking the Sun and dragging him to Creation, yes, definitely, just not that easily. Or rather, if you want it to be that easy it’s not because the books or rules imply that it is, but because your ST is running some kind of mega gonzo campaign, but at that point conversation is almost meaningless.

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  • Isator Levi
    replied
    How the fuck did my post just get wiped out as I was writing it...?

    Fuck's sake, abridged version: Other possibility is game where telling off Deliberative is opener and then followed by exploring consequence of disruption. Seems fitting to premise of Solars as major upset. Suggested before, stuff like kill Mnemon in first session. Think RPGs with detailed settings are uniquely suited, since everybody already knows characters and scenario going in.

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  • DrLoveMonkey
    replied
    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
    An episodic game that opts for the aesthetic device of starting from the centre and spiralling outwards
    That sounds good, but why does it have to involve the ability to walk into one of the most dangerous and heavily guarded places in the setting, deliver a devastating speech, and walk out again based on absolutely nothing but your charm power? Remember I’m not saying that the concept of going and giving an epic speech to the deliberative is bad, just that making it something that any Solar who wants to flex a bit can do without any kind of setup.

    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
    Your reading of my statement as something to defeat the whole Realm at once is wrong.
    What would the effect be?

    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
    ...What?
    If the Realm isn’t something to take seriously, then most things in the setting aren’t either until you get to the stuff that can actually chuck mountains around.

    Which is a problem for me as a ST. You want a game where mortals defeat the Yozi? Done, that’s not even hard. You want a game where Essence 10 Solars square off against a scavenger lord? Nope, can’t do it. I mean, maybe I could, but I wouldn’t. When I craft a campaign that lets a mortal circle be the lynchpin, the people who made the biggest difference, the ones who saved the world, my PCs don’t feel cheated. When I craft a campaign that lets a mortal rise up and punch them in the nose, they feel cheated and it’s not fun. Maybe once or twice, but it’d be rare.

    The Exalted should be powerful, but if you start the baseline at setting-breaking, there’s not much room to go up, and going back down is really hard.
    Last edited by DrLoveMonkey; 11-10-2020, 11:14 AM.

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  • Isator Levi
    replied
    Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
    That's not a story, that's the warmup scene to show how awesome your MC is before the actual story starts. Which in Exalted could definitely be a scavenger lord or something, but when it's the deliberative for the globe crushing empire then it's like, what are you even warming up for?
    An episodic game that opts for the aesthetic device of starting from the centre and spiralling outwards.

    Your reading of my statement as something to defeat the whole Realm at once is wrong.

    Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey
    Is there no story in Exalted that isn't about creatures that can backhand a mountain range off the map*?
    ...What?

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  • JohnDoe244
    replied
    Originally posted by Colin_Fredericks View Post
    Essence 1.

    Specifically, Essence 1, Lore 5, Lore supernal, and six Lore charms, ending with God-King's Shrike.

    From any major library in Creation, this character can destroy the Imperial City and its surrounding territory, probably with options for several others. One per year, the Realm's cities should already be getting destroyed at the start of the average game.
    You want to rend fate then commit 30m for a week? Do you want teacup ninjas? Because that's how you get teacup ninjas.

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  • DrLoveMonkey
    replied
    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
    It's not automatic. It's Luke Skywalker strolling into Jabba's palace, except where he makes the guards recoil with religious epiphanies rather than telekinetic choking.

    Or maybe there is a touch of telekinetic choking; in line with some Charms in Miracles.
    Oh yeah, what bothers me isn't about the basic concept. Like if you had a Jabba's palace thing where your Night Caste was captured by Sesus Nagezzer or a scavenger lord and you went to the Palace of Roses or whatever with your plan to plant allies among his motley entourage there, then waltz in and convince him to let them go, fail, get dropped down to fight a Devil Stone with your bare hands because you're a boss, give one last ultimatum over the Fangblossom pit and then get passed your daiklave and start taking heads, that has my full 100% support.

    What doesn't have my support is Luke walking into the Imperial Senate and telling all the planetary governors that they suck and so does the whole idea of the Empire and then walks out having dismantled the entire institution that the whole story is based around fighting. That's not a story, that's the warmup scene to show how awesome your MC is before the actual story starts. Which in Exalted could definitely be a scavenger lord or something, but when it's the deliberative for the globe crushing empire then it's like, what are you even warming up for? Is there no story in Exalted that isn't about creatures that can backhand a mountain range off the map*?


    *I mean literally even. Like they backhand the mountains and all maps everywhere that once depicted them now do not.

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  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by Accelerator View Post
    Once again another thing that's the problem with 3e.
    Threadcrapping. Please leave and do not return to this thread.

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  • Accelerator
    replied
    Once again another thing that's the problem with 3e.

    Leave a comment:


  • DrLoveMonkey
    replied
    Originally posted by Colin_Fredericks View Post
    Essence 1.

    Specifically, Essence 1, Lore 5, Lore supernal, and six Lore charms, ending with God-King's Shrike.

    From any major library in Creation, this character can destroy the Imperial City and its surrounding territory, probably with options for several others. One per year, the Realm's cities should already be getting destroyed at the start of the average game.
    I might start with Eagle's Launch or Thorns or something first. There's just something that screams "bad idea" about targeting the Sword of Creation with a nuke.

    Leave a comment:


  • Colin_Fredericks
    replied
    Essence 1.

    Specifically, Essence 1, Lore 5, Lore supernal, and six Lore charms, ending with God-King's Shrike.

    From any major library in Creation, this character can destroy the Imperial City and its surrounding territory, probably with options for several others. One per year, the Realm's cities should already be getting destroyed at the start of the average game.

    Leave a comment:


  • Isator Levi
    replied
    I think another thing to consider is that one might want to emphasize what can make a lower Essence Solar a significant danger to the Realm because it lets those characters function as meaningful antagonists in Dynast Dragon Blooded games without being too overwhelming.

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