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Niobraran: What Do We Know?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by FallenEco View Post

    I think that was asked at a Q&A thing way back when, but the Devs have changed since then and it isn't like we got a lot of details since.
    Short answer; about as much as one would expect the surface and the depths too, is; not a lot. At least at the time of the War.

    Ergo, maybe none, maybe some. But considering the Niobraran War on itself might be described as "surface x depths" conflict in the first place, the potential of interactions is far from zero.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Baaldam View Post


      Ergo, maybe none, maybe some. But considering the Niobraran War on itself might be described as "surface x depths" conflict in the first place, the potential of interactions is far from zero.
      Agreed. Certainly I think the Lintha would be interested in acquiring Niobraran power (artefacts, manses, knowledge, etc) in the Age of Sorrows. Anything for an edge, right?


      Thoughts ripple out, birthing others

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Baaldam View Post
        What if the Voice of Trench are the Whispers of one Neverborn?
        The world becomes smaller and less interesting.




        Evocations for the demonic tattoos gained from the Pact with Mara sorcerous initiation || Pyre-Kindler (Soulsteel and Red Jade Grimscythe, Artifact 3) || Tenebrous Descent (Stormcaller's Black Jade Reaver Daiklave cousin, Artifact 5)
        Advice for running the corebook shikari antagonists

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        • #19
          Originally posted by FallenEco View Post

          Agreed. Certainly I think the Lintha would be interested in acquiring Niobraran power (artefacts, manses, knowledge, etc) in the Age of Sorrows. Anything for an edge, right?
          Definitely.


          Originally posted by aluminiumtrioxid View Post

          The world becomes smaller and less interesting.

          I can see your point but can't say i see eye to eye with you on that. Being part of a group doesn't have to mean "all-equal/amorphous/quantifiable" even if some commonalities will exist.
          Specially in the case of beings as elusive and open to individual ST interpretation as the Neverborn.

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          • #20
            The arguments against it in principle can come later, but the practical thing is that reverence for the Trench is supposed to predate any Primordials dying.


            I have approximate knowledge of many things.
            Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
              The arguments against it in principle can come later, but the practical thing is that reverence for the Trench is supposed to predate any Primordials dying.

              Wasn't aware of this, most interesting. Have a source on that?

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              • #22
                I don't know, maybe at some point I'll go looking for eight year old introductory quotes.

                The big thing to me is that the Voice in the Trench is very interesting as this idea that the underwater peoples have their own idea of cosmological origins and the identity of God based on the prominent features of their own domain. It extends the undersea world from being a mere curiosity into its own vibrant, alien realm with its own rules, a thing very reminiscent of the Flat Earth stories and reflective of how the depths are still mysterious on our own planet.

                You take that idea and add to the intrigue of it with the notion that Exalted unlike any other were associated with the ocean trench.

                To me, the idea of pulling the Scooby Doo mask off that and revealing it's a familiar Neverborn detracts vastly from the development of the Undersea as strange new territory with its own power, and weakens the credibility of its people by making their major spiritual belief into just being dupes. What does that give the Niobraran War other than transforming it from a major instance of the Exalted establishing a political identity in the face of a territorially and spiritually incompatible opponent into just the first scheme to end the world?

                Not to mention the weird things it does to the Neverborn, like the implications of creating their own unique form of Exalted (whose signature power was calling things into existence, a bit of a stretch for the Neverborn) and distancing them from the image of being the quintessential things of the dead.

                There's a place for people ignorantly worshipping something that turns out to be the Neverborn, but it's not at the bottom of the sea.


                I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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                • #23
                  There is something to that. OTOH whether this is really possible, to explore an unknown ontological religious space, in a setting that begins effectively "In the beginning the Primordials created the Heavens and the Earth", perhaps not... Just because something is interesting does not always mean there is space to explore it in a given context.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Ghosthead View Post
                    There is something to that. OTOH whether this is really possible, to explore an unknown ontological religious space, in a setting that begins effectively "In the beginning the Primordials created the Heavens and the Earth", perhaps not... Just because something is interesting does not always mean there is space to explore it in a given context.
                    The trenches could be filled with darkspawn (leftover remnants of the prototypes of Creation), which in turn gave rise to the things that empowered the Speakers. That explain 'created Heaven and Earth' as well as an ontological mythical space for them. Added bonus, it provides a rationale for why they didn't fight in the Primordial War; not their gods, not their place being threatened.


                    Thoughts ripple out, birthing others

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                    • #25
                      Random inspiration from reading this thread:

                      It's a well-known fact that words have power. They shape our thoughts and deeds, guide every interaction between thinking beings. Some even say that words are the only difference between Creation and the Wyld--that they are the underpinnings of reality, the fundamental source of order and linear time.

                      Nothing with that sort of power is transitory. Words continue to exist long after they're spoken. Positive words, words spoken in joy and love, rise forever into the stars; negative words, expressions of bitterness and malice, sink into the earth and seas. In the Neobraran Trench, the lowest point in Creation, spiteful words have collected for untold millenia, roiling and bubbling with the hatred they conveyed. An endless maelstrom of anger and passion, growing ever larger, ever more bitter.

                      Until, one day, it opened its eyes.

                      The Voice in the Trench is the embodiment of the world's hatred. It has no body, but it lives nonetheless, forever echoing through the depths of the Neobraran Trench. From its sunken throne, it whispers to the races of the deep. It promises power in exchange for war, strength to be used only for destruction. For the more misery it can inflict upon the world, the more bitter words will be spoken, and the larger and louder the Voice becomes. If not stopped, one day it drown the world.

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                      • #26
                        Things like allowing there to be some value to Niobraran beliefs about the origin of the world, and even the potential for a bit of genuine origin to the likes of Immaculate beliefs, is why the exact process of the Primordials making the world is something that should never get too much clear elaboration.

                        I mean, even Exalted: the Fair Folk introduced a sense that it's only really Cytherea and Gaia who properly "made" Creation, which throws up questions about what, if anything, the direct contributions of the others was, and even really what Cytherea and Gaia did together for it.

                        Then you throw things like the behemoths into the mix; Mount Mostath's schtick seems ripe to be involved with mythology of having put the mountains into place. I have my own notion that the elementals have origin mythology that ascribes much of the hard work of really assembling the functional world to their ancestors, and involves the Elemental Dragons in their ultimate origins.

                        And it was stated that the word "Niobraran" was meant to be a reference to a kind of primeval ocean that the West of Creation was constructed upon.

                        Still, that's not the primary thing. I find a significant difference between "the undersea peoples are characterised by a distinct religious belief (that may not be totally accurate)" and "the ultimate identity of their core deity is something that is already recognised elsewhere and is definitely not what they think it is", and the latter to have the issues with weakening their credibility.


                        I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                        Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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                        • #27
                          I must admit I’m quite interested with the idea of the Niobraran mythology as an unique idiosyncrasic thing. Not only it adds more diversity and depth to the history of Creation but, as Isator Levi said, it also add credibility to the people of the deep.

                          Furthermore, the fact that the Spoken are extinct gives other opportunities to create Underworld / Undead stories : maybe (as someone propose on a Discord) one of the Spoken is now a Deathlord. Maybe their cyclopean and powerful ghosts are ruling strange abyssal domains in the Underworld, alien even to the oldest ghosts, potentialy putting them at odds with a more traditional undersea Deathlord.
                          In a way, an abyssal / liminal exalted story appears to be a natural way to integrate the Niobraran in a story talons place in the present of the setting

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