Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Interpreting Canon Demons.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Baaldam
    replied
    Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post

    The only way I'd accept that as transpiring is if you didn't tell the Maker of Flesh that you had commissioned to make them beastfolk, and they went about indulging... other sensibilities. Beastfolk aren't special.
    Yeah, but are the examples habitableexoplanet such a big deal? His two fanciful examples are mute and a creepy intimacy, but with thematic ties in a particular beastman origins as a Neomah's artistic work - and depending on circunstances, not something an individual sorcerous master would notice soon enough or care to varying degrees according to that individuals sensibilities or priorities.

    Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post
    The Lunar Chosen-Blooded a la 1e who could shift between human, beast, and full-on Deadly Beastman Transformation? Those are special, and also capable of far, far more than a mortal hero with some mutations. It's like the difference between the MHA quirks that make their holders godlike vs. the ones with quirks that give them odd faces.
    True. That kind of shapeshifting already enters into the terrain of charms at least a little and possessing it is a definite sign of being much more than just your average beastman. It's more like the difference between a simple magical bauble represented by a 1-2 artifact or thaumaturgy rite and the wonders of 3-5 artifacts and their evocation trees or Sorcery, i guess.
    Last edited by Baaldam; 11-21-2020, 08:50 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Greyman
    replied
    Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
    Onto something else? Ok if I bring up 2nd edition Demons
    Yes, if you include references so we know where to look for more details.

    TINSIANA, the Scorpion Demons (Compass of Celestial Directions: Malfeas p150) progeny of LUCIEN, Guardian of Sleep (The Books of Sorcery Volumn V: Rolls of Glorious Divinity 2, pg 64.
    Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
    I probably applied a false romanticism to him. Any ideas why I would?
    No, idea. The Guardian of Sleep clearly helps those in power sleep peacefully by hunting down rebels. He's not the Sandman.
    Last edited by Greyman; 11-21-2020, 05:36 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Prince of the Night
    replied
    Onto something else? Ok if I bring up 2nd edition Demons

    I was shocked to see Tinsinia were the creation of lucien after thinking about it for a bit I came to the conclusion I Probaly applied a false romantacism to him.

    any ideas why I would?

    Leave a comment:


  • Saur Ops Specialist
    replied
    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

    Let's not drag down more unrelated threads with hangups about Fangs at the Gate.
    It's a problem that stretches back to 1e but whatever.

    Leave a comment:


  • Saur Ops Specialist
    replied
    Originally posted by habitableexoplanet View Post

    I'm not saying you give a neomah flesh from a human and flesh from a wolf, they won't have Fangs, Enhanced Senses, and Unusual Hide like the wolf-folk of the Nameless Lair.

    I'm just saying they might not be able to speak in a human voice, but only a wolf's howl.

    Or they might be able to speak like a human, and integrate into human society much of the time, but constantly resist the urge to look at humans as meat.

    It's rough, but if you work with demons to create human-animal hybrids using their mysterious and terrifying flesh-magic, what did you expect?

    Or it might turn out totally fine.

    But it's certainly not something you can rely on.
    The only way I'd accept that as transpiring is if you didn't tell the Maker of Flesh that you had commissioned to make them beastfolk, and they went about indulging... other sensibilities. Beastfolk aren't special. The Lunar Chosen-Blooded a la 1e who could shift between human, beast, and full-on Deadly Beastman Transformation? Those are special, and also capable of far, far more than a mortal hero with some mutations. It's like the difference between the MHA quirks that make their holders godlike vs. the ones with quirks that give them odd faces.

    Leave a comment:


  • Prince of the Night
    replied
    Think Its fair enough to mention 2nd Edition Demons?

    Leave a comment:


  • habitableexoplanet
    replied
    Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post

    If they didn't have those mutations they wouldn't meaningfully be beastfolk. Making something as beastfolk would require mutations. And besides, it's not like being human would logically entitle them to special treatment where the neomah are concerned, any more so than any other type of mutant. They have a few tiny benefits, not God-Blood, a spiritual gift, or Exaltation. This is yet another reason why I loathe this Lunar-beastman proximity error connection, and wish that 3e would have just axed it.
    I'm not saying you give a neomah flesh from a human and flesh from a wolf, they won't have Fangs, Enhanced Senses, and Unusual Hide like the wolf-folk of the Nameless Lair.

    I'm just saying they might not be able to speak in a human voice, but only a wolf's howl.

    Or they might be able to speak like a human, and integrate into human society much of the time, but constantly resist the urge to look at humans as meat.

    It's rough, but if you work with demons to create human-animal hybrids using their mysterious and terrifying flesh-magic, what did you expect?

    Or it might turn out totally fine.

    But it's certainly not something you can rely on.

    Leave a comment:


  • Prince of the Night
    replied
    [QUOTE=Carl.ollivier;n1424882]
    Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post


    I think it might help if you clarified why you're asking these questions? Are you planning a campaign and this Is this for an NPC or setting element you want to introduce? Are you playing in a campaign and you want to have your PC set up this demon-administered slave society? Or is this just a thought experiment?


    Its mostly a thought experiment, though I did do pretty much this once in a 2nd edition game I ran.
    Last edited by Prince of the Night; 11-19-2020, 09:25 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Isator Levi
    replied
    Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post
    This is yet another reason why I loathe this Lunar-beastman proximity error connection, and wish that 3e would have just axed it.
    Let's not drag down more unrelated threads with hangups about Fangs at the Gate.

    Leave a comment:


  • Carl.ollivier
    replied
    [QUOTE=Prince of the Night;n1424828]
    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

    I am curious how you keep looking for that, but that's not a large impediment.

    Summoning up the demons and acquiring the materials at the scale to do this as you would propose would entail a great deal of effort, but it's certainly doable for the person willing to commit.

    The big question is, who's going to teach them how to farm?

    Very Valid point another reason you might just buy a hundred or so agricultural slaves from the guild and get them to build a village for you

    You can add in a few more slaves every now and then or try the neomah strategy.

    I think it might help if you clarified why you're asking these questions? Are you planning a campaign and this Is this for an NPC or setting element you want to introduce? Are you playing in a campaign and you want to have your PC set up this demon-administered slave society? Or is this just a thought experiment?

    Leave a comment:


  • Eldagusto
    replied
    Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
    Eh.

    I could see a strong case for beast-folk with purely cosmetic alterations and Flaws (rather than mutations).
    I agree with this.

    Leave a comment:


  • Saur Ops Specialist
    replied
    Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
    Eh.

    I could see a strong case for beast-folk with purely cosmetic alterations and Flaws (rather than mutations).
    And I could see the classification of beastfolk getting divvied up into grades between "mistaken for Lunar DBT by the uninitiated" to "strange eyes", but the bottom line is that there's nothing about mutations that would or should make this process all that complicated or difficult. They're still mortal, they still suffer from infections and bleed out, they're still born to die in endless strife. Treating them as anything but any other mortal is a mistake, even if something in the new Lunar book tried to present it otherwise.

    Leave a comment:


  • JohnDoe244
    replied
    Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post

    If they didn't have those mutations they wouldn't meaningfully be beastfolk. Making something as beastfolk would require mutations. And besides, it's not like being human would logically entitle them to special treatment where the neomah are concerned, any more so than any other type of mutant. They have a few tiny benefits, not God-Blood, a spiritual gift, or Exaltation. This is yet another reason why I loathe this Lunar-beastman proximity error connection, and wish that 3e would have just axed it.
    Eh.

    I could see a strong case for beast-folk with purely cosmetic alterations and Flaws (rather than mutations).

    Leave a comment:


  • Saur Ops Specialist
    replied
    Originally posted by habitableexoplanet View Post


    Lunar-created beastfolk explicitly have 6 dots of beneficial mutations and no harmful ones, except insofar as some of the mutations can be inconvenient in certain situations. I don't see any reason that neomah-created human-animal hybrids would have the same property, which I guess is a reflection of Luna's gifts (or the Lunar Exalted's mastery over form). I think it would be appropriately demonic to have a mix of beneficial and harmful consequences.

    For the worst case, I note that beastfolk are the equal of humans in their intelligence, their capability of speech, and their flexible arms with opposable thumbs suitable for using tools, but what you get by throwing human and animal flesh at a neomah might not be.
    If they didn't have those mutations they wouldn't meaningfully be beastfolk. Making something as beastfolk would require mutations. And besides, it's not like being human would logically entitle them to special treatment where the neomah are concerned, any more so than any other type of mutant. They have a few tiny benefits, not God-Blood, a spiritual gift, or Exaltation. This is yet another reason why I loathe this Lunar-beastman proximity error connection, and wish that 3e would have just axed it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mockery
    replied
    Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
    Can Aleuva use Any Craft?

    Like Say Make a Warship?
    Okay, so I actually looked at her writeup in the 3e core, and the writeup for Willing Souls Tempered would seem to imply that as long as she can stunt it as blacksmithing in aesthetics, she can do it--her skills are in "Forging Hellish Wonders". Her writeup also vaguely confirms the idea that she can make artifacts from her petitioners. Like all crafting NPC's, she doesn't actively keep track of silver, gold, or white XP, but a willing offering grants an equivalent of these to her for use in one of her projects: a single person can give 10 silver XP, allowing her to make a major project (which most of her given examples would fall into) with that soul. However, the 5 gold or single white XP--as well as the escalating requirements for each roll--imply that both she is capable of greater works (of which, say, a warship would be one)--and that they require more than one petitioner to complete: small nations might submit themselves for her greatest wonders.
    Last edited by Mockery; 11-18-2020, 10:20 PM.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X