Venom Dripping Mandible?

[Citadel97501]

Hello all, I was just wondering if anyone else found the charm Venom Dripping Mandible (Centipede Style) incredibly strong? I understand that it would take a poison centric build and likely only that poison's duration is extended, and my copy doesn't seem to say what the poison does while they are crashed. For example Arrow Frog Venom does 3i and 3L when the target is crashed?

[Kelly Pedersen]

Hello all, I was just wondering if anyone else found the charm Venom Dripping Mandible (Centipede Style) incredibly strong? I understand that it would take a poison centric build and likely only that poison's duration is extended, and my copy doesn't seem to say what the poison does while they are crashed.

If it doesn't say what changes in crash, then I'd assume it just keeps doing initiative damage, driving the target further and further into the negatives. I expect that's part of the balance of the charm: no matter how long you hit them with it, it's never going to get worse than losing initiative. And a penalty of -1 and an average of 1.5 initiative lost every round really isn't that bad for the opponent. Also, don't forget that targets will get a (Stamina + Resistance) roll to resist the poison, with every success dropping the duration by one round. A strong Resistance build could quite easily shake off the poison completely.

Overall, for 6m, I'd call it a reasonably balanced charm.

[Citadel97501]

Well what I was noticing is that by initiative shifting you could easily hit them with it twice and as they haven't gotten a turn yet they can't reduce the duration to less than 0, so the Savaging attack would add more and more to the duration without another resistance roll.

[Cheshire Cat]

Which still isn't that bad, so no, it's not incredibly strong. I mean hitting a sta 1 resistance 0 dex 5 ninja with it, and they're gonna have a bad time, but the initiative damage from poisons is usually not that interesting, way more interesting is them rolling over into damage, and most of all, their penalty.

[JohnDoe244]

Poisons that don't say what they do in Crash default to Lethal damage:

While a character is in Initiative Crash, Initiative poisons instead apply their damage directly to the character’s health track—usually as lethal damage, although some poisons may deal bashing damage, as noted in their description.

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Well what I was noticing is that by initiative shifting you could easily hit them with it twice and as they haven't gotten a turn yet they can't reduce the duration to less than 0, so the Savaging attack would add more and more to the duration without another resistance roll.

Resisting poison is Reflexive and happens when you are exposed. So they can reduce it to zero.

Also, you can't grapple if you're Crashed, so to double stack this by Shifting you'd have to:

Get attacked.
Wither to Shift (VDM is Decisive-Only)
Use your Shift attack to then then grapple, then sacrifice rounds of control on your Decisive VDM backed savage, which resets you to 3i. They reflexively roll (Stamina + Resistance, or their QC Resist Poison/Disease pool) to reduce the duration (which is between 4 and 11+ rounds depending on your Essence, Strength, their Onslaught, and your rounds of control).
Use your new round attack to Decisive on 3i (ideally another savage if you still have rounds of control, almost certainly at +1 duration from Onslaught), and they roll to resist again
Now you're sitting at least 12m down on 3i when your opponent takes their turn.