Wyld-Shaping Technique: Heaven weaving new soul into the Loom of Fate (2nd Ed)

[Daredevil]

Lets say I want to make people with souls that will continue on after their deaths. Wyld-Shaping Technique does not allow this by itself because the new, Wyld-Shaped soul is not woven into the Loom of Fate.

Creatures made using Wyld-Shaping Technique are outside Creation’s processes of life and death. They do not reincarnate in Creation or as a real creature unless Heaven orders their pattern woven into the Loom of Fate. Nor do they form ghosts unless the Neverborn intervene to recreate their Essence pattern as such. They fade away upon their deaths and are no longer valid targets for Charms or other effects unless otherwise stated.

So how do I go about that?

Or, does Wyld Cauldron Technology (WCT) automatically make these souls permanent? I find the wording vague. WCT specifically discuses altering existing people, but not specifically making the souls of Wyld-Shaped people permanent.

If Wyld Cauldron Tech. does not make these souls permanent, how do you weave their souls' pattern into the Loom of Fate?

Thaumaturgy?

Sidereal Charm I've missed?

Astrology or Craft-Fate?

[Epimetheus]

It would be astrology which is also done through craft:fate. In order to weave the pattern into the loom you'd probably have to petition a god to get the pattern spiders to do it unless you know a sidereal willing to do it for you.

[vampire hunter D]

could the Solars develop a custom E6+ charm to do it? or should it stay entirely out of their power?

[TheCountAlucard]

You could talk to the psychopomp gods in the Bureau of Endings and convince them to do it. Sounds right up their alley.

[Epimetheus]

could the Solars develop a custom E6+ charm to do it? or should it stay entirely out of their power?

Thematically, it's out of their power. Crafting things into and out of fate is the purview of sidereals.

[armyofwhispers]

Thematically, it's out of their power. Crafting things into and out of fate is the purview of sidereals.

You'd think so, but as I recall, so much of their charmset was based on something being inside fate already that it really screwed them when abyssals and internals were outside of fate by default.

As far as I know they had no published power to overcome this issue.

[Organ Boy]

could the Solars develop a custom E6+ charm to do it? or should it stay entirely out of their power?

I don't see why not, actually. Since 2e had A Hood on Death for Solars to conquer disease by converting a vast swathe of disease into a loyal disease god, I don't think it's out of the question for a Solar to conceptualise "conquering life and death" by creating new human souls. Perhaps in a similar way to the Infernal charm Spawning Pit Sanctification?

[Epimetheus]

You'd think so, but as I recall, so much of their charmset was based on something being inside fate already that it really screwed them when abyssals and internals were outside of fate by default.

As far as I know they had no published power to overcome this issue.

They can still use craft:fate on the loom. Which while underdefined would still allow an ability like this to happen. They can also use Of Horror's Best Unknown to do it but that's really only for things that are really outside fate to pull them. For example a 3rd circle demon or deathlord.

[Isator Levi]

You'd think so, but as I recall, so much of their charmset was based on something being inside fate already that it really screwed them when abyssals and internals were outside of fate by default.

Not really. The limits of Sidereals against characters outside of Fate were clearly defined, and just a few things to do with affecting Willpower or mental influence.

And that was only for Charms with the Fate Keyword, which were not many.

[Stephen Lea Sheppard]

I think in first edition it explicitly just kinda happened if they existed in the world for a while -- months or years bumping up literally and metaphorically against other real things, influencing and being influenced, causes the fate of a Wyld-shaped person or thing to tangle up with and then be woven into the loom of fate.

I don't have a cite, though.

[Maseiken]

It's a big project though, as a Solar you'd need to convince a significant majority of the Sidereals that your crafted people are worth keeping around in Creation. Presumably as other Solars are making their own, similar requests.

Perhaps the bitterest and most bloody battles of the First Age were over whose OCs would be made canon.

[Isator Levi]

Yeah, I'm just checking back over the First Edition version of Sidereals, and it explicitly limits effects that cannot work on beings outside Fate to affecting their Willpower levels (including positively), compelling behaviour and transportation between locations. It notably does not prevent them from predicting such beings futures.

Heck, that Edition's version of Conclusive Wisdom waives the usual limits to allow it to still affect higher circle demons.

The Second Edition errata limited that even further, just making it so that such beings did not have their memories altered by reality altering Charms.

It's a big project though

What are you basing that on?

[webkilla]

ya, a sidereal could do it, they have a charm for it - prayers to the pattern spiders might also do it (if your ST allows) and craft:fate could also do it, if you know how to do that

[Maseiken]

What are you basing that on?

My desire to make a joke about Solars being fanfic nerds and Fate being analogous to a fandom's Canon.

[AnubisXy]

I think in first edition it explicitly just kinda happened if they existed in the world for a while -- months or years bumping up literally and metaphorically against other real things, influencing and being influenced, causes the fate of a Wyld-shaped person or thing to tangle up with and then be woven into the loom of fate.

I don't have a cite, though.

That's what I remembered. As the created wyld-beings and wyld-terrain interacted with those who were part of Creation proper, those things slowly also became subsumed into the Loom, the people there gained souls, and all of that became indistinguishable from places that had always been a part of Creation. You didn't need to go talk with a Sidereal or a god and ask them to give these people souls and attach them to the Loom of Fate. As long as they had constant contact with the people and things of Creation proper, that would all happen on its own.