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  • #16
    Originally posted by prototype00 View Post

    I think lorewise in some cases Cecylene is involved in the summoning process (probably via some terms in the articles of surrender or whatnot).

    IIRC the demon starts his journey through the desert five days ahead of the summoning (how? You’re asking the wrong question here) and arrives just as the summoning ends via the desert.

    It may be that no demon knows how to find the desert, but Cecylene certainly does seem to know how to find them at narratively appropriate junctures, whether your Storyteller wants the desert to show up or prefers the Benny Hill scenarios that you proposed, well, I leave that to each individual game.
    Hmm, it never has been made exactly clear what the destination of the journey from Malfeas across Cecylene to reach Creation is. I presume that for people who want to leave Hell, there's a bit more to it than spending five days in the desert and then you automatically transition to Creation, that you need a certain path or procedure.

    I could see summoning still having that quality with the benefit of providing the gateway at the end of the journey.

    But entering Cecylene from Creation has been elaborated in prior Editions, and it requires special magic or unusual circumstances and locations. I don't think it's something innate to demons (although I'd call it innate to the spell calling them coming to an end).

    Plus the reasons I've given for why I would not want it to be. I don't think you should get out of a problem retainer that easily. Not if you realise their mindset or capabilities leads to orders being fulfilled in ways you don't want, let alone what they'll take the initiative to do for your benefit.

    Besides, it seems to fit this Edition's general tone regarding sorcery, that there's no easy switching it off. No catch all spell to just dispel other sorceries, and I think precious few spells provide an option to end them early.

    Although in that spirit I'll say that it's within a sorcerer's power to create their own portal for the demon to pass back through at your command, and it will probably take less time than waiting for the spell to end. It might carry the consequences of having a space that humans or demons could continue to stumble through, though (plus the costs).

    EDIT: Incidentally, it occurs to me that a bound demon who has spent months and crosses hundreds of miles in search of a way back to Malfeas at their summoner's command can undermine that progress with one use of Hurry Home should anything prompt them to return to their master's side.

    If loyalty is a Defining Tie, then other people can target it with influence to convince the demon to do things. I need to check back over the rules for overturning influence, but that might be on the table for anybody who wants to redirect their mission.
    Last edited by Isator Levi; 03-04-2021, 12:08 AM.


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    • #17
      Originally posted by prototype00 View Post
      “I’d really like it if you hoofed it back to Malfeas and hung around there until the time of our contract is done, pretty please?”- Summoner

      “For you m’dear, anything” - Demon with magically enforced Defining Intimacy.

      Probably only works if the desert between Creation and Malfeas is still a thing in 3rd Ed.
      Setting aside the question of whether any given demon has a means of returning to the Demon City on its own, the demon only has a Defining Tie to the sorcerer if summoned for a year and a day. Task-bound demons have a Defining Tie toward completing their task, not toward the summoner.


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      • #18
        This is the point where demon summoning in Exalted becomes an intentionally distinct take on the narrative trope of summoning a demon to make a wish. They are probably not going to intentionally twist your instructions to fuck you over, but you still need to be careful.

        Alternately, you can get away with being callous. Which is one of the reasons why sorcerers are distrusted. By far the easiest route is to summon demons to solve your problems and then cultivate in yourself a lack of care for their collateral damage.
        Last edited by Stephen Lea Sheppard; 03-05-2021, 02:42 AM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Kyeudo View Post

          I've got the exact wording in my notes, but, no, that was not what the task was. The task was to get the swamp back where it was when the series started. The problem is the demon is already pursuing what is probably the fastest course. Also, the task was set while working under assumptions that will shortly prove false - the swamp isn't moving around because of an angry god or elemental.
          They summoned Octavian to coral a swamp, I'm guessing?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Stephen Lea Sheppard View Post
            This is the point where demon summoning in Exalted becomes an intentionally distinct take on the narrative trope of summoning a demon to make a wish. They are probably not going to intentionally twist your instructions to fuck you over, but you still need to be careful.

            Alternately, you can get away with being callous. Which is one of the reasons why sorcerers are distrusted. By far the easiest route is to summon demons to solve your problems and then cultivate in yourself a lack of care for their collateral damage.
            Which is exactly how I handle my demon summonings in real life, as well.
            I also lure them away from colleteral with carrots.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by nalak42 View Post
              They summoned Octavian to coral a swamp, I'm guessing?
              She summoned a homebrew Second Circle Demon called Desouk, the Forked Tongue, to acquire information about a lover who was abducted into Hell by a mistaken command during a past summoning in her backstory. Since she could only summon one Second Circle per new moon and had no good ideas about how to solve the swamp problem herself, she decided "Why not?" and bound the demon to put the swamp back where she thought it belonged.

              The demon's first option was not "poison the land", but instead talking to some of the swamp's children to ascertain if the swamp could just be negotiated back into place. It concluded "not really". Mother Bog is a little too ambitious to just sit there.
              Last edited by Kyeudo; 03-05-2021, 05:39 PM.



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              • #22
                Originally posted by Kyeudo View Post

                She summoned a homebrew Second Circle Demon called Desouk, the Forked Tongue, to acquire information about a lover who was abducted into Hell by a mistaken command during a past summoning in her backstory. Since she could only summon one Second Circle per new moon and had no good ideas about how to solve the swamp problem herself, she decided "Why not?" and bound the demon to put the swamp back where she thought it belonged.
                How did that work? The thing was summoned with a Loyalty binding with the intention of just using that to ask it questions for a year? Or was the intent when the summoning ritual was begun to Task bind it to providing information, but in the intervening hours it became apparent that a more pressing matter needed attending to so a different mission was provided once the demon arrived?


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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Kyeudo View Post

                  She summoned a homebrew Second Circle Demon called Desouk, the Forked Tongue, to acquire information about a lover who was abducted into Hell by a mistaken command during a past summoning in her backstory. Since she could only summon one Second Circle per new moon and had no good ideas about how to solve the swamp problem herself, she decided "Why not?" and bound the demon to put the swamp back where she thought it belonged.
                  Hmm, slightly confused here - was the demon initially summoned to answer questions, but then the summoner somehow found out between the moment of summoning and of binding the demon that it didn't have the answers, so they switched to "put Mother Bog back where she should be"?

                  Or did they summon the demon, bind it to the task of putting Mother Bog back, and then somehow get the information out of it via other means (social influence, for example)?

                  Because there's no mechanics in any of the demon-summoning spells that compel them to answer the summoner's questions, unless that was the specific task you bound it to do, in which case once they answered, that's it, they're done and back to Hell. You don't get to say "Oh, I'm not really satisfied with this work, you have to do something else for me too".


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                  • #24
                    Adding to the above, the only scenario's whereby the demon can be made to answer the questions then handle the swamp* is if the demon was that the demon bound to service for a time period. In which case its back to the summoner can just tell the demon to stop as soon as it starts taking the course of action the summoner is against.

                    *Baring the strange concept that the demon offered the information before it was bound, which would make the information suspect and I doubt is close enough to how the scene played out for an easy retcon of the scene especially if they then went off and bound it anyway.

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                    • #25
                      Demons are (sorta) people too; it doesn't have to be bound to answer questions to have a conversation while it goes about its work. Whether you should or do believe its answers when it's not bound to tell the truth is more down to your own Social skills and what kind of incentive it has to lie.

                      Though "The Forked Tongue" doesn't strike me as a demon known for his candor and sincerity...
                      Last edited by Blackwell; 03-06-2021, 10:47 PM.

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                      • #26
                        I'd assume that for a year-and-a-day summoning, yeah, you can send them back to hell using the same banishing methods you'd use with (Wits+Occult) to cast them back to hell during a failed binding, though there's no strong textual support for or against this. A task-binding, though? Firm no.

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                        • #27
                          I'd assume that you get the option of banishing an unbound demon because the portal it came through is still right there, but once the spell is resolved that is gone and you don't innately have any means of bringing it back.

                          I guess I have to assume that a portal opens to accommodate the demon whose binding has ended to time or task as an inherent quality of the sorcery, but I don't think that's something the sorcerer can isolate and invoke at will. Out-of-character it's because I think it's too convenient for something that should be handled cautiously, but I'd find it consistent in the setting where spells seem like these elaborate but irreducible things.

                          Like, I can imagine that devising the demon summoning spells entails giving them a certain iconic narrative logic that can't be finely designed to cover numerous contingencies. I would promote that as a baseline for how characters might develop spells of their own in storylines.


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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

                            How did that work? The thing was summoned with a Loyalty binding with the intention of just using that to ask it questions for a year? Or was the intent when the summoning ritual was begun to Task bind it to providing information, but in the intervening hours it became apparent that a more pressing matter needed attending to so a different mission was provided once the demon arrived?
                            I included some roleplay between bringing the demon to Creation and binding the demon. She initially was going to make it return her lover, but the demon had sold him to Markarios, which came out in the conversation.

                            Honestly, I should write up a journal of the game for here sometime. I'm quite proud of the initial setup and my players have done some reasonably novel things with it.



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                            Upon the Rock of Tradition: The Memorial Exalted
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