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What did the mountainfolk and dragon kings stand to gain from the Rebellion?

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  • What did the mountainfolk and dragon kings stand to gain from the Rebellion?

    what is the point of risking everything just so you can replace distant overlords with close ones? (and in the case of the dragon kings very close indeed)

  • #2
    I think it was who they owed direct fealty to that tipped the scales.

    The Dragon Kings were devoted (still are) to The Unconquered Sun (I think this was the case even before the Rebellion), and the Mountainfolk were thralls/creations of Autocthon, both of whom were on the side of the gods during the Rebellion.

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    • #3
      The same could be said of any colonial rebellion. Having the power closer to home is being able to influence it more.

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      • #4
        They likely also figured they would have a much larger role in the world after the war, since in the early stages it was probably impossible to foresee how dominant the Exalted Host and humans in general were going to end up being.

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        • #5
          Perhaps they were under the impression they would have more say in the rule of the world then they ended up getting? Or the Primordials were just such awful rulers that they thought 'the humans literally could not be worse so **** it'.
          Last edited by Mizu; 05-25-2021, 07:02 AM.


          Exalted Whose Name is Carved in Leaves of Jade

          Senator of the Greater Chamber

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          • #6
            Originally posted by pcontop View Post
            The same could be said of any colonial rebellion. Having the power closer to home is being able to influence it more.
            Has it ever happened though? I.e rebelling so that another slave group can be your new masters? In real life i mean. The best i can think is Washington promising slaves freedom if they fight against the british, but the dragon kings/mountain folk were never the literal slaves of the primordials. Based on every book that has ever been published,anyway

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            • #7
              Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post
              They likely also figured they would have a much larger role in the world after the war, since in the early stages it was probably impossible to foresee how dominant the Exalted Host and humans in general were going to end up being.
              Then why not switch sides later on? Realpolitik and all that

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              • #8
                Originally posted by mark2 View Post
                Then why not switch sides later on? Realpolitik and all that
                The Dragon Kings continued to be respected allies and friends of the gods and Exalted after the war. They weren't slaves or even exactly "subordinate", so much as so nearly wiped out that they were not a viable power bloc anymore, even before you consider the vast might of the Exalted.

                The Mountain Folk were metaphysically lobotomized and literally forced underground by their creator, because the Solars and their patron feared they would do exactly what you're talking about. I don't think the Jadeborn were expecting that outcome when they helped the Exalted. Note they didn't even really *fight* in the war to any great extent, they mostly supplied weapons and materiel.
                Last edited by Blackwell; 05-25-2021, 08:38 AM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by mark2 View Post
                  Has it ever happened though? I.e rebelling so that another slave group can be your new masters? In real life i mean. The best i can think is Washington promising slaves freedom if they fight against the british, but the dragon kings/mountain folk were never the literal slaves of the primordials. Based on every book that has ever been published,anyway

                  Everyone was a slave to the Primordials from the lowliest insect or beast to the sentient mortal races to the highest of the gods, they not a single one had any sort of rights protecting them from being abused by their Primordial creator kings that we have heard of in any edition. Or if such laws saying that certain servants had actual inalienable rights as opposed to the fleeting fickle protection of currently being favored that could be stripped from them at a whim I don't remember reading it anywhere.
                  Then why not switch sides later on? Realpolitik and all that
                  The primordial ones strike me as not being very likely to accept traitors back into the fold
                  Last edited by Mizu; 05-25-2021, 08:39 AM.


                  Exalted Whose Name is Carved in Leaves of Jade

                  Senator of the Greater Chamber

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mizu View Post
                    The primordial ones strike me as not being very likely to accept traitors back into the fold
                    Akuma?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Blackwell View Post
                      Akuma?
                      People who find out the cost of being trusted after going traitor is getting your mind rearranged and losing your free will are unlikely to be interested in that kind of deal.


                      Exalted Whose Name is Carved in Leaves of Jade

                      Senator of the Greater Chamber

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mark2 View Post
                        Then why not switch sides later on? Realpolitik and all that
                        At least in Second Edition the Mountain Folk were geased after the war had already ended. And the Dragon Kings lost a massive amount of their numbers after many of their souls were utterly destroyed by the Primordials so simply due to the permanent and irrevocable losses they suffered during the war, they no longer had the numbers to be in a position of dominance in the new world they had helped to create.

                        Who knows about 3rd edition though.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Blackwell View Post



                          The Mountain Folk were metaphysically lobotomized and literally forced underground by their creator, because the Solars and their patron feared they would do exactly what you're talking about. I don't think the Jadeborn were expecting that outcome when they helped the Exalted. Note they didn't even really *fight* in the war to any great extent, they mostly supplied weapons and materiel.
                          It just seems so naive to expect anything much better. Best case scenario life goes on more or less as before

                          [QUOTE=Blackwell;n1449540]

                          Originally posted by Blackwell View Post

                          The Dragon Kings continued to be respected allies and friends of the gods and Exalted after the war. They weren't slaves or even exactly "subordinate", so much as so nearly wiped out that they were not a viable power bloc anymore, even before you consider the vast might of the Exalted.


                          Exactly. What was there to gain? They kept doing their thing. Why risk nothing for minimal gain. The Exalted at least rushed everything for everything



                          Originally posted by Mizu View Post


                          Everyone was a slave to the Primordials from the lowliest insect or beast to the sentient mortal races to the highest of the gods, they not a single one had any sort of rights protecting them from being abused by their Primordial creator kings that we have heard of in any edition. Or if such laws saying that certain servants had actual inalienable rights as opposed to the fleeting fickle protection of currently being favored that could be stripped from them at a whim I don't remember reading it anywhere.


                          The primordial ones strike me as not being very likely to accept traitors back into the fold
                          If we stretch the word slavery that much then by that logic in any absolute monarchy everyone is the slave of the king. The dragon kings were mostly beneath the attention of the primordials
                          Sure they had the power to make them do anything (as did the solar deliberative) but seemed not to care about it
                          Last edited by mark; 05-25-2021, 05:21 PM.

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                          • #14
                            If we stretch the word slavery that much then by that logic in any absolute monarchy everyone is the slave of the king. The dragon kings were mostly beneath the attention of the primordials
                            Sure they had the power to make them do anything (as did the solar deliberative) but seemed not to care about it
                            The way you say this makes it sound like a revelation to you that people living under a government where the head of state has absolute power and can do whatever they want are slaves. Why do you think there are so few countries left in the world that tolerate such nonsense as a leader with totally unchecked power? A slave is a slave even if they don't live somewhere they are likely to get their master's direct attention since it isn't like they need to be within arms reach to mandate abuses be rained upon you as amused them.

                            Yeah, they cared so little about it that they actively aided in a rebellion against them.


                            Exalted Whose Name is Carved in Leaves of Jade

                            Senator of the Greater Chamber

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by mark View Post

                              It just seems so naive to expect anything much better. Best case scenario life goes on more or less as before
                              Yeah, but this was also not a thing that had happened before, so in a complete absence of prior history or evidence to the contrary the possibility of a better situation is not the worst concept. As also noted their patrons were in favor of their, so depending on what the individual faction was being asked to do the options would have also included potentially going into opposition of your patron.



                              Originally posted by mark View Post

                              Exactly. What was there to gain? They kept doing their thing. Why risk nothing for minimal gain. The Exalted at least rushed everything for everything
                              Not running afoul of the whims of the other Primordials. Honestly, going with the bit in 2e on how the other Primordials liked trashing Autochthon's stuff I would not be surprised if the Jadefolk were not occaisionaly targets, or at the least fellow sufferers of having their stuff broken.




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