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  • New directions with the old Infernals

    Following through with Lioness' suggestion in the Fokuf thread.


    Ok, as i think amost everyone here in the forums already knows, the 3rd edition version of Infernals, while working with some common themes and imagery, is going to be its own thing and not follow the same format and mechanical concepts of the Green Sun Princes in 2nd edition.

    What leaves a number of people who enjoyed them a little lost and some of those asking themselves what might them do with the sort of "conceptual empty space" that leaves them.


    Me, i like to be more of the second type of fan, instead of grieving for the loss of either Green Sun Princes or Akuma, might as well memorialize them - and keep them alive - by looking back at their concepts, breaking down and contrast with the developing setting in 3e and coming up with new directions, in terms of either mechanics, fluff or both, we might take them as STs in one's individual tables.


    A topic not about how are 3e Infernals are going to be or how like or unlike the Green Sun Princes, but making crazy, wholy new sort of beings for our own games out of the old stuff.


    Such as - the Green Sun Princes were a peculiar lot in that the 5 "castes" of their type, were in truth the shoehorned chosen of 5 different entities each with its own idiosyncratic charmset, so technically casteless and conflating qualities, powers and weaknesses of those varied beings in ways never seriously considered by their makers.

    Right there i can see some pretty hefty parallels with 3e Exigents, specially those of the "dirt bomb" kind, what opens all kind of possibilities:

    - What if the Green Sun somehow crafted his own set of verdigris exigences amidst the dregs of its lost but remembered name and the ephemeral shards of the other infernal sun, dead Ruvelia to whom it dedicated a cenotaph-graveyard and the observances of the Weaver of Voices?
    - Could Szoreny or Kagami through their labyrinthine explorations of paths never taken and fractal reflections of purloined light bring into form an event mirroring the Ignis Divine making of the "blank" miracles?

    From there we have two possible origins for "multi-Yozi chosen" that could be "old school" Infernals, "dirt bomb exigents out of Hell" or a bunch of weird iterations.


    Or going into the opposite tack, i imagine there might be "lost" experimental creations of one or more of the 5 Yozis previously associated with the Reclamation (is the Reclamation even a thing in 3e?), Malefactors, Defilers, Fiends or more, each with their own castes, idiosyncracies & mysteries.

    Chosen possibly feared and hunted by their repentant makers themselves, who dread the accidentally bestowed power of those more than mortals to change their own primal, innefable nature by incremental leaps of logic and choice toward directions not mean of their own volition. Promethean dark heroes of sorts, mortals empowered into near-godhood with the stolen cosmic fire of titans.


    Seeds of whole new directions for STs & PCs to explore. Come on people, let's fire up some bits of madness, the more people the merrier!
    Last edited by Baaldam; 08-26-2021, 03:42 PM.

  • #2
    The main idea I've had along these lines is that at some point in the past, a renegade City Father or Mother fled from Yu-Shan's justice into Malfeas and was lucky enough to enjoy a degree of patronage from the Demon City until their purview started to warp accordingly.

    I'm not sure if they survived using the Exigence, on the one hand it's potentially a waste of an interesting character but on the other I enjoy the mental image of a god who thought they were a major player in Hell realising they were ultimately only there to pay the toll for the Law of Diminishment.


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    • #3
      Originally posted by Lioness View Post
      The main idea I've had along these lines is that at some point in the past, a renegade City Father or Mother fled from Yu-Shan's justice into Malfeas and was lucky enough to enjoy a degree of patronage from the Demon City until their purview started to warp accordingly.

      I'm not sure if they survived using the Exigence, on the one hand it's potentially a waste of an interesting character but on the other I enjoy the mental image of a god who thought they were a major player in Hell realising they were ultimately only there to pay the toll for the Law of Diminishment.
      I had a similar idea but with an estranged child of the Unconquered Sun falling under the sway of Liger.

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      • #4
        I remember that idea of yours, even imagined some slight variants on it, like the "patron" being someone like Tu Yu, the competent and refined deity of a metropolis that is no more a major and respected god left without function and empty.

        ....or its coming to hell not as a criminal but as ambassador of sorts to the Yozis, through a combination of past favors, recognition of its diplomatic skills and more and while dealing quite competently with one's new role, being not quite capable to ignore the yearning to fill the void left by the loss of a millenia-long purview, leading that deity to perceive a comparable void in that distant place it came to serve.

        Two absences that complement each other, as she becomes the consort of the fallen tyrant, Divine Satrap of the Demon City, in a variant of the narrative we have seen with the Ebon Dragon & Scarlet Empress.


        Originally posted by Lioness View Post
        The main idea I've had along these lines is that at some point in the past, a renegade City Father or Mother fled from Yu-Shan's justice into Malfeas and was lucky enough to enjoy a degree of patronage from the Demon City until their purview started to warp accordingly.

        I'm not sure if they survived using the Exigence, on the one hand it's potentially a waste of an interesting character but on the other I enjoy the mental image of a god who thought they were a major player in Hell realising they were ultimately only there to pay the toll for the Law of Diminishment.

        Well, even if gone, who's to say a part of him or her does not persevere through its chosen, a sort of inner guide/imprint/passenger akin to the Coadjutor of the Green Sun Princes or puissant Past Lives certain "Solaroids" could suffer from?


        Originally posted by Bastet View Post
        I had a similar idea but with an estranged child of the Unconquered Sun falling under the sway of Liger.
        I know you probably mean someone more like "Little Beam" from Glories to the Most High, but would the so-called First Shadow of the Unconquered Sun and unofficial god of Calibration also count?

        Even if not, he might make an entertaining guide or foil for the chosen of such a being, i guess.


        Or, going into a somewhat different tack, now i'm imagining Ligier crafting some kind of Monstrance-like apparatus amidst the graveyard of its fallen twin with the colaboration of Berengiere, in a particularly eerie melange bones of tangible deadlight with the half-whispered prayers and admonishments of demons, sorcerers and infernal cultists to the queer locale and the mysterious morstly forgotten being it serves as memorial to.

        An instrument of transformation between Lament Configuration, melnibonean "musical scream array" and pipe organ overture. Still a little rough on the edges to say the least, but it's the start of an idea i guess.
        Last edited by Baaldam; 08-27-2021, 07:04 PM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Baaldam View Post
          I know you probably mean someone more like "Little Beam" from Glories to the Most High, but would the so-called First Shadow of the Unconquered Sun and unofficial god of Calibration also count?

          Even if not, he might make an entertaining guide or foil for the chosen of such a being, i guess.
          Probably not, as daylight makes Five Days Darkness disappear and Ligier brings that to Malfeas almost eternally. The idea was that the chosen of a lesser solar deity could take on similar themes of the sun expressed as a deadly nuclear reaction to those seen in the green sun cascade of the Malfeas charmset.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Bastet View Post
            Probably not, as daylight makes Five Days Darkness disappear and Ligier brings that to Malfeas almost eternally. The idea was that the chosen of a lesser solar deity could take on similar themes of the sun expressed as a deadly nuclear reaction to those seen in the green sun cascade of the Malfeas charmset.

            For that someone like Glories' Little Beam would definitely be the go-to spirit, no doubt. Though having agents of 5DD as their nemeses could make for a fun riff on the Solar x Abyssal dynamic.

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            • #7
              My concept's going to include some inspiration from the core Malfeas set (namely a lot of the parts about physical invulnerability on the lead up to Ablation of Brass and Flame) but also some ideas from Plague of Hat's Hundredfold Facets of Enlightenment where he tried to do more with Malfeas as a city.



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              • #8
                Originally posted by Lioness View Post
                My concept's going to include some inspiration from the core Malfeas set (namely a lot of the parts about physical invulnerability on the lead up to Ablation of Brass and Flame) but also some ideas from Plague of Hat's Hundredfold Facets of Enlightenment where he tried to do more with Malfeas as a city.

                For some reason charms (maybe inspired by twisting/inverting Abyssals Labyrinth navigation charms) related to urban navigation, or more precisely, subtly reshaping the urban landscape so it becomes labyrinthine and inavigable to those opposing the Chosen of the Demon City comes to the mind.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Baaldam View Post


                  For some reason charms (maybe inspired by twisting/inverting Abyssals Labyrinth navigation charms) related to urban navigation, or more precisely, subtly reshaping the urban landscape so it becomes labyrinthine and inavigable to those opposing the Chosen of the Demon City comes to the mind.
                  Minor quibble. For me one of the core ideas is they are not subtle. At the least, the labyrinth would have the emblem of the user everywhere. Or at the other end, you recognize being lost at the same instant you realize the sun has been tinted green.

                  In my random mumbling, the quintessential Infernal or yozi-themed scene would be black widow in the Avengers Movie, doing an interrogation by being interrogated. That kind of awesome to 11, turned kinda inside out and with a heavy dose of lsd.

                  So i guess if I was doing custom stuff, I’d take standardish charms and give them a stinger - to get best bang for buck, you need to satisfy se unusual condition. Like tanking with your face to become invulnerable-ish. For city inspired charms, something about “the city is hungry” as a theme.

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                  • #10
                    I felt that the She Who Lives in Her Name/Defiler Caste aesthetic seemed to want to pull more in the direction of crystal spires and togas rather than tarnished brass and mutations, which I liked but at the same time contributed toward Infernals feeling like a bit of a clusterfuck.


                    success is the ability to go from one failure to the next without any loss of enthusiasm

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by The Hug Ninja View Post
                      I felt that the She Who Lives in Her Name/Defiler Caste aesthetic seemed to want to pull more in the direction of crystal spires and togas rather than tarnished brass and mutations, which I liked but at the same time contributed toward Infernals feeling like a bit of a clusterfuck.

                      Can't say i agree with that - where i to define She Who Lives in Her Name's themes as anything it would very much be as exquisite glass globes shimmering with light instead of snow and can seen deeply peaceful in their silence but are actually forever bubbling full of radiactive-toxic verdigris flame in the brink of an explosion of petty hate of cosmic proportions - but can see where the visuals might lead to that particular sci-fi-esque imagery trope.
                      Last edited by Baaldam; 09-12-2021, 08:34 PM.

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