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  • #16
    And if we did... the metaplot that the TV series will establish is going to be hundred times worse than the brainspiders RotSE induced. I love listening to The Fall of Jiara podcast, but the idea of taking an actual play and making it "canon" fills me with dread. And the idea of turning Exalted over to generic TV script-writers makes my blood run cold. This isn't about letting new fans enjoy a new thing (but, of course, I'm not going to give anyone a hard time for liking something that's not to my tastes), it's about the warping effect this is going to have on your games at your table.
    Ohhhhh nooooooo I hadn’t thought of that at all. Could the authors show enough restraint to not have the show eventually do things like take down the entire Realm or fight one of the really big foes like the Mask?

    I think it could work if they did, like death knights are a thing, Dynasts are a thing, but they’re almost like the fey. Nobody ever really suggests that you go out into the wild and make fairies extinct, they’re just a thing you need to deal with.

    If they didn’t though, that would be bad. Whatever the epic world ending threat in the show is would absolutely spread to games all over as the default assumption for what Exalted campaigns are about.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Erinys View Post
      Actually depict the atrocities that inevitably follow imperialism, from the point of view of the colonized population, written by people from real world colonized cultures. Pull no punches. Don't try to justify "civilizing the savages" with BS about "the good they do despite all the genocide and rape camps." Don't apologize to Realm fans, let alone real-world white supremacists. Don't sugar coat a single thing. And show the Solars and/or Lunars kicking Dynast ass and even winning some of the time, without making them cardboard 100% Good by any modern or Christian definition. Made damn sure that white Exalted protagonists are NOT the saviors of brown NPCs. They should be the same "race" as the society they live in and defend.
      Have you watched Black Sails? It doesn't tick all these boxes since it takes place in New Providence Island when it was a pirate haven (while also being a prequel to Treasure Island) but Britain and Spain as the real villains of the later seasons.

      During GoT's heyday my heterodoxical take was that it was the better show overall.


      Onyx Path Forum Moderator

      Plug for the Sword of Creation forum, a new hub for Exalted related content

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
        The Man with the Iron Fists
        That was the first thing I thought of when hearing about this, along with the absolutely delerious badassery of this Bollywood movie scene:



        Pretty sure it's possible to do justice to Exalted visually in live action. Making a good story of it... well, we'll see.
        Last edited by squidheadjax; 09-04-2021, 12:18 AM.

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        • #19
          A friend and I were discussing and well there's a lot of potential angles to approach the series from. Like lets just presume our lead is going to be more or less what one would expect of their caste, so you know warrior exalting dawn as opposed to an assassin exalting zentih, those lead to very different potential storylines. A night caste easily has the potential for the series to go Carmen Sandiago heist film, an twilight has the potential for ruin exploration, and so on and so forth. So I mean optimism.

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          • #20
            They could do Exigents instead of Solars, and just never have them reach the level of power to even consider attacking a Deathlord or wiping out the Realm. I know, power tiers, but it would be a way to keep the metaplot issues down while also showcasing new Exalted instead of "yet another typical Solar". But, it would make it more difficult to start with "ordinary" wire-fu that looks merely human.

            Lioness, I haven't seen Black Sails. I generally stopped watching TV when the Sci-Fi channel became what it is now.


            She/Her. I am literal-minded and write literally. If I don't say something explicitly, please never assume I implied it. The only exception is if I try to make a joke.
            My point of view may be different from yours but is equally valid.
            Exalted-cWoD-ArM url mega-library. Exalted name-generators, Exalted and WTA stuff from me and others.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
              Are you gonna put the game that published Houses of the Bull God on Netflix?
              Netflix has a fairly diverse catalogue, and some reasonably dark stuff gets in there.

              Originally posted by JohnDoe244
              You're going to get the Exalted mythology past the CCP censorship board?
              Why do you assume that matters?

              Originally posted by JohnDoe244
              You're going to get American, mainstream audiences, to watch a show that put a transman on its lead 3E book (and a black woman front and center before that)?
              There are television shows going at the moment that prominently feature transgender people, and they've been featuring black women for quite some time.

              Queen Latifah is currently starring in a new version of The Equalizer, and Netflix has been running Star Trek Discovery for years now.

              Originally posted by JohnDoe244
              Or you're going to pander with the gameline that pushed out Scroll of Swallowed Darkness?
              The Scroll of Swallowed Darkness was an April Fool's gag. It exaggerated the game's sex positivity, but it's not the baseline.

              Originally posted by JohnDoe244
              The right and the left will tear this show apart with manufactured outrage.
              I think the mainstream outlets will mostly be unaware of it.

              And why the left?


              I have approximate knowledge of many things.
              Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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              • #22
                I hope:

                1. It's about Solars
                2. It is incredibly cheesy
                3. The Realm is the bad guys.



                Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

                  Why do you assume that matters?
                  Generally speaking, investors don't throw money at projects which are going to fail financially.

                  I think the mainstream outlets will mostly be unaware of it.
                  I thought that about Mass Effect.

                  Queen Latifah is currently starring in a new version of The Equalizer, and Netflix has been running Star Trek Discovery for years now.
                  Audiences find comfort in established brands. Breaking out with a new IP is harder. It's not impossible, but black creators trying to break out with black leads on their original projects have a harder time than putting a black lead on a white brand. And if that fact makes you uncomfortable, then good -- it should. Abject racism is a reality that should be confronted. We live in an age where shit like this happens, so much as you'd like to downplay the problems with today's society... I assure you, they're there.

                  And why the left?
                  Because basically the entirety of authoritarian cancel culture comes from the authoritarian left? Who like nothing more than eating their own over not being woke enough?

                  I sincerely doubt that the game with the Tya, Delzahn, Brides of Ahlat, and panda people sex slaves, about the returning god kings fighting against their genetic lesser who overthrew them with cowardly betrayal then ran the world into the grown at the behest of their shadowy, conspiratorial overlords is going to pass muster In the Year of Our Lord Twenty Twenty X. (And that's assuming we cast the Realm as white, and not as an Asian superpower that needs to be fought against.)

                  There is one Lunar in Fangs at the Gate who is forced to stay at home and be a single parent instead of pursuing their career goals. Can you guess Weyna Who-Sees-Much's gender?

                  Now, all that gets a pass from us. Because we understand nuance. We understand storytelling. We know what OPP in general and the Exalted devs in particular are trying to achieve. We're not looking to create outrage for clickbait or gain clout by tearing apart a socially progressive company for doing good work.

                  But if you can look at Exalted and find nothing that reactionary left wing media could possibly object to... I genuinely don't know how to proceed in this conversation. Agree to disagree, I guess.

                  [Edit] The original post in this thread links to a Tweet. this is the first reply to that Tweet. But tell me more about how the Left won't have a problem with this show and how it will go beneath notice.

                  ****

                  Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                  Netflix has a fairly diverse catalogue, and some reasonably dark stuff gets in there.
                  I would really prefer if you avoided terms like "diverse" and "dark" when I express concerns over the racist undertones of House of the Bull God.

                  Despite our previous interactions on the subject of race, I'ma take this in good faith and say:

                  I am raising concerns over the racist undertones of House of the Bull God. Would you like to clarify what you mean by this?
                  Last edited by JohnDoe244; 09-05-2021, 06:56 AM.


                  Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                    I hope:

                    1. It's about Solars
                    2. It is incredibly cheesy
                    3. The Realm is the bad guys.

                    CT, I admire your goals here in their very achievableness

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                    • #25
                      Slightly optimistic, Obviously i hope it happens and i hope its not a completely garbage product. With that out of the way i would certainly love to see this thing as an anime with hopefully not some vanilla ass Solars are the MC's. So crossing my fingers for something interesting

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by squidheadjax View Post

                        That was the first thing I thought of when hearing about this, along with the absolutely delerious badassery of this Bollywood movie scene:
                        See, I'm torn. On the one hand, this is exactly the right tone for Exalted. On the other, maybe a bit on the silly side for episodic TV? Not that silly is badwrongfun, just that it just makes it hard to have continuity, rising stakes, etc. for a season or more. See also Kung Fu Hustle.

                        That said, "Trebuchet Ammunition Day" is now part of all my Tiger Warrior Training curricula going forward.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
                          Because basically the entirety of authoritarian cancel culture comes from the authoritarian left? Who like nothing more than eating their own over not being woke enough?
                          That’s underestimating how much progressive language has been appropriated.

                          For example a lot of Ex3's anti-fans coach their language in such terms, but ultimately when you look at what they hope to achieve by this the most coherent goal I've seen over the years is essentially for Paradox to take back their IP from Onyx Path and give it to a bigger company that can handle White Wolf’s old publication output.


                          Onyx Path Forum Moderator

                          Plug for the Sword of Creation forum, a new hub for Exalted related content

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post

                            I am raising concerns over the racist undertones of House of the Bull God. Would you like to clarify what you mean by this?
                            I think I often keep a fairly good memory of what people have expressed likes and dislikes of concerning the game to often know where they're coming from, but one way or another this being an objection you had for Houses of the Bull God was something that I was not aware of. Respectfully, it was not a clarification made when you mentioned it in the prior post; given the examples placed before and after it, I assumed that the common thread was things that are dark enough for unfamiliar people to possibly be put off, but that are worthwhile or valuable to be in the setting. I selected that as the example to quote from simply because I thought it was the least controversial example.

                            As far as concern for what it might mean in a modern media property, I think it bears pointing out that it's been almost two decades since that book was published, and much has changed since them. I do not think the racist undertones of it have much chance of informing a contemporary property.


                            Originally posted by JohnDoe244
                            I thought that about Mass Effect.
                            I think that requires a few qualifiers.

                            For a start, Mass Effect was released... thirteen years ago?! I remember seeing it in theatres... anyway, a long enough time ago that it might not be the best example for how to expect things in the modern day.

                            Video games have often gotten a harsher eye turned on them by mass news media than many other fictional properties of comparable details. Even then, the kind of outrage news that would have made a big deal over sex scenes in a video game currently has a lot of other targets in vogue. If a video game came up with these kinds of things, it would be unlikely to be looked at by the mainstream. A television program even less so.

                            There's a question of whether there was a Streisand Effect going on. Did that kind of coverage of Mass Effect actually hurt the game at all, or did it bring it to the attention of even more people? We're in a day and age where a lot of people scrutinise things that Fox News raises objections to through a lens of those things probably having merits if such individuals should despise them. Exalted being given that kind of prominence could do a lot to improve its profile.

                            And the other side of a Streisand Effect... how much news coverage did Mass Effect actually get? Was it talked about as much by outraged right wing media as that coverage was talked about by people who mocked it? How did you hear about it?


                            Originally posted by JohnDoe244
                            Generally speaking, investors don't throw money at projects which are going to fail financially.
                            That's true, but it's still begging the question. I don't take it as a given that the approval of the Chinese Communist Party is relevant; that's an argument that you'll need to make.

                            For my argument, I would say that plenty of stuff gets made today without any concern for how it will play with the Chinese authorities. I actually think the degree to which that kind of thing shapes how stuff gets made is a bit overblown anyway, and it's mostly talked about with regards to big blockbuster films, a more likely cultural export than a smaller television show.

                            And ultimately, if it needs to be censored, it might well just... be so. Steven Universe has aired in Russia and Arab majority countries, they just airbrush out the gay stuff.

                            Originally posted by JohnDoe244
                            Abject racism is a reality that should be confronted.
                            And my argument is that how such things could be, should be, and do get made is a process of that confrontation.

                            There'll be pushback to some degree, but that doesn't mean it should be spoken of as though it's doomed out of the gate or facing an impossibly uphill battle.

                            Originally posted by JohnDoe244
                            so much as you'd like to downplay the problems with today's society
                            Don't do that.

                            Originally posted by JohnDoe244
                            Because basically the entirety of authoritarian cancel culture comes from the authoritarian left? Who like nothing more than eating their own over not being woke enough?
                            Wellll, for a start I feel as though "reactionary" is a more accurate term there than "authoritarian". Some of those kinds of people do go so far as being Tankies who actually think a dictator is worth it to implement the communism, but as a term for what you're describing it ends up being more of a provocative buzzword.

                            As far as tearing something apart goes, I find the more substantial form of that to not be being really vocally critical of it, but like... the harassment campaigns. From what I've seen, the more left leaning Twitter reactionaries of the kind you're referring to tend to direct their harassment more at individuals than media properties. When it's not something as focused as an individual, then sure they'll be severely critical of it, but it seems to me that kind of thing tends to be pretty damn insular even by the standards of Twitter.

                            Exalted has weathered that kind of controversy before. People reacted badly to those Kickstarter Abyssal Charm previews. That led into that Something Awful article that curated a lot of the worst examples from the game's past. That kind of thing passes, and so long as they're not directing hate mail and death threats to anybody then the people so inclined are welcome to it.

                            Originally posted by JohnDoe244
                            [Edit] The original post in this thread links to a Tweet. this is the first reply to that Tweet.
                            But... it isn't. That Tweet is made at around 8pm. The original announcement Tweet is made at about 5pm. The person making a Tweet at 5:05pm is making a shocked cat face (https://twitter.com/lalomartins/stat...36231453040643). Excitement is the tone of most of the response Tweets.

                            The Tweet you're focusing on has a bit more attention than most of the other responses, but a lot less than the announcement, and just as an objective measure not much.

                            And to be perfectly frank, I think the subjects raised there are not absolutely invalid things to dislike about the history of Onyx Path and regard as personal deal breakers. There's a line of excessive focus, but I don't think this quite passes it. Edges up a bit close.

                            Hell, I saw Matthew McFarland being outed in real time. I still find it stings when I have to see his name in my Mage: the Awakening books.
                            Last edited by Isator Levi; 09-05-2021, 12:56 PM.


                            I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                            Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Blackwell View Post
                              See, I'm torn. On the one hand, this is exactly the right tone for Exalted. On the other, maybe a bit on the silly side for episodic TV? Not that silly is badwrongfun, just that it just makes it hard to have continuity, rising stakes, etc. for a season or more. See also Kung Fu Hustle.

                              That said, "Trebuchet Ammunition Day" is now part of all my Tiger Warrior Training curricula going forward.
                              Making something zany like that work takes a lot of effort, and usually lots of budget too. I feel this is beyond the scope of anyone willing to tackle the show.

                              Ultimately what I think this will become is realm-flavored drama with a splash of action.
                              As far as specifically selling Exalted goes, that's drop of water against the ocean. It will, at best, work on its own, and won't sell at all a comprehensive exalted experience.

                              So this is going to face high competition (less odds of success) and won't have the chops to work as an exalted advertisement.
                              If it fails it's wasted money. If it succeeds it will be dissonant with the game itself. Twisting player expectations is just one of the associated problems. Another is that it won't be useful to sell the game to new people. And even if it catches their attention, capturing a new audience is only half of what's needed to keep them. The other half is enticing them with new toys frequently and with lasting effect. Just look at the game's publishing history.


                              Check my Exalted homebrew!

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                              • #30
                                Discussed elsewhere it's been mentioned that Exalted and other OP lines would do well with an anthology series like Halo Legends and the Animatrix as an addition to episodic series.


                                “The very existence of flame-throwers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done.” George Carlin

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