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  • #31
    I've seen plenty of people who were introduced to Exalted by Keychain of Creation, and while it gave them some impressions about how the game would work that were faulty and they would complain about that, it looked to me like they always got on with things anyway.


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    Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
      And the other side of a Streisand Effect... how much news coverage did Mass Effect actually get? Was it talked about as much by outraged right wing media as that coverage was talked about by people who mocked it? How did you hear about it?[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
      I heard about Mass Effect via my gaming channels. I found out about the controversy when Piers was ranting about it on GMB.


      Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

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      • #33
        Okay, before anything else in this thread, there is something that I've got to walk back, because I was not thinking clearly at the time.

        It is not cool for a person to state or imply that Onyx Path has any complicity in the allegations against Matt McFarland. To have alluded to it in the fashion of that Tweet, as though he was shielded or still working there or anything other than him becoming radioactive about as soon as that came out, is the height of disingenuous. It's not my place to speculate on that Tweeter's motives, but it doesn't make that phrasing any less wrong in every sense of the word.


        I have approximate knowledge of many things.
        Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
          I heard about Mass Effect via my gaming channels. I found out about the controversy when Piers was ranting about it on GMB.
          But do you see my point about the idea that many people might have heard about it second hand, and inquiring into the matter of how sustained that discussion was?

          On top of that, I do think citing Piers Morgan adds to some of my point about the differences in media landscape across this decade plus, considering how the man's reputation has taken a significant downturn.


          I have approximate knowledge of many things.
          Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

            But do you see my point about the idea that many people might have heard about it second hand, and inquiring into the matter of how sustained that discussion was?
            I do.

            Do you see how this is neither universally good nor bad?

            I absolutely agree that people who'd never heard of Mass Effect, did hear about it because of the controversy.

            I speculate that many of these people hadn't heard of it because video games were not a big interest of theirs, and that having found out about it, very few of them actually decided to make a purchase as a result of the negative media coverage.

            I further speculate that many teens (remembering this was rated 12 by the BBFC and T in the North American market) who would have otherwise purchased it, were prevented from doing so by concerned parents.

            Ultimately, Mass Effect was a smashing success. But I don't think we can draw a causal link to the Streisand Effect. I merely point out, that what was a highly anticipated art form in a subculture was nevertheless picked up, and panned, by mainstream Puritans.

            And Exalted is so, so, so much worse than a light sideboob.

            ****

            Piers Morgan went from beloved cultural icon to reviled because of his beliefs falling outside of the accepted Overton window. His lack of relevance today, I feel, only supports my point.

            Exalted is too openly left of centre to find support from Piers Morgan's breed.

            It's not left enough to appeal to Morgan's detractors.

            We've got a thread going about how you have to wrestle bears and be an action-dad to get Exalted (even though you don't), and how Exalted is sexist for not having any old lady Exalts (even though it does). And even though you don't think it's a fair criticism, we've got folks on Twitter accusing OPP of having a rape culture.

            But fine. I ceed the point. You win. Exalted is the perfect left wing game and no-one complains about it ever. Nothing it has ever printed is objectionable. None of the fans are toxic. Any negative media attention will only make it more popular. Anyone who raises concerns "is not cool" and "is wrong" and must have ulterior motives. I'm done replying to you, feel free to take the last word then let's move on.


            Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
              But fine. I ceed the point. You win.
              I do not see how I have been anything other than cordial.

              I'm not trying to win anything, I'm just trying to express points and bring up details that might put things into proportion.

              Originally posted by JohnDoe244
              Anyone who raises concerns "is not cool" and "is wrong" and must have ulterior motives.
              Well this just confuses me. You brought up a Tweet in terms suggesting that you thought how it was speaking about Onyx Path was unfair and it getting savaged by the authoritarian left, but when I'm also critical of it I'm being a jerk to people raising concerns? I specifically said "I will not speculate on this person's motives", the complete opposite of saying that they had ulterior motives. I have no idea of that person's motives, and will not project a specific unfavourable one based on no evidence.


              I have approximate knowledge of many things.
              Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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              • #37
                Thinking about it, (whilst I'm still not sold on the idea) if I could wishlist what this show is about, I like Erynis's idea of showing the naked evils of empire and having the Solars fight to defend a kingdom in the middle of nowhere (from the Realm). And stop at Essence 2.

                I base my personal politics around the idea of consent, and an imperialistic warmachine conquering and taxing folks sounds like a great Bad Guy. I don't believe in launching crusades to civilise the savages, or that brutal oppression is somehow justified for the greater good (excellent story fodder, many of my characters believe these things, but let's get that out there).

                I'd like a show that doesn't try to have mainstream appeal. Write a love letter to the fans.

                What I liked most about Rogue One was that it showed the underbelly of the (Rebel) Alliance to Restore the Republic. The "hero" murders a guy, confesses to being a spy and sabatour and assassin. Saw's faction was even worse! (I deeply disliked The Last Jedi, but I did like how the same arms dealers who supply the First Order supply the Resistance.)

                I'd like to see Solars in the thrall of limit break. I want to see them using Monk Seducing Demon Dance, and Rose Lipped Seduction Style, and Soul Snaring Pitch. I'd love to see the goresplattered results of using Invincible Fury of the Dawn.

                Let the evil empire be an evil empire. Not a cacklingly evil cartoon, but a genuinely uncomfortable mirror to the oppression world powers have spread historically (and still spread today). But let's not sanitise the rebels as wide eyed, blond, farm boys. Let them be terrorists. Let them be desperate people, driven to violence, and empowered by Creation's mightiest god. Let's have the viewer going "whoa, hold up! Not cool!" ... and then introduce Infernals as the Saw Gerrera to the Solar Mon Mothma.

                Let the Realm's ethic Wan be portrayed by Han actors. Let them make war on an ethnically coded threshold state -- having seen squidheadjax's YouTube clip up there, I like the idea of Bollywood actors. Let's have High Realm and (idk) Flametongue spoken on screen. I'm not against the idea of having a white foreign Exalt in the drama, so long as they're not more competent than the native Exalts and swooping in to save the day. Creation is a big place and folks travel -- there's nothing wrong with diversity in the cast, but the story should be focused on folks fighting to defend their home, not on a white saviour who is empowered by the gods to be better than everyone. (Heck, let the racially diverse characters be from the kingdom under siege. A nation can have different ethnic groups within it. Just don't put make whitey the poster child.)

                I don't like the idea of making excuses for imperialism, but I also don't like the idea of reducing Exalted to He-man vs Skeletor. All the factions think they are the hero. Let's show that they're all human.
                Last edited by JohnDoe244; 09-09-2021, 07:30 PM.


                Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

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                • #38
                  @Doe, while that's exactly what I don't want out of an Exalted show, I do think that's the "Put it all on black and make a high risk bet, and perhaps it'll become a cult pop-culture phenomenon!" kind of a bet, since it seems like the sort of thing that could catch fire in 2021.

                  (What I do want, if there is to be a live action Exalted show, is an adventure heroes show with a bit of a gritty edge, and that sounds like more than a gritty war show with a bit of an heroic adventure edge. I want them to read the whole Storytelling chapter of Exalted 1e and then, er... do that. Emphasis on: Stunts! Melodrama! Romance!)

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Ghosthead View Post
                    @Doe, while that's exactly what I don't want out of an Exalted show, I do think that's the "Put it all on black and make a high risk bet, and perhaps it'll become a cult pop-culture phenomenon!" kind of a bet, since it seems like the sort of thing that could catch fire in 2021.

                    Of course it could catch fire. That's why what it kinda needs to be willing to do wouldn't get made today.


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                    • #40
                      The problem is, as Anthony Mackie points out, is that logic is about big movies and why the Hollywood formula is collapsing under its own weight. It's why risky stuff gets made today, but the place to do it is streaming services instead of cable TV or in theaters. To pull straight from that link, The Goonies isn't going to get made as a Hollywood movie today, but Stranger Things is the modern day Goonies; and it works because it's on Netflix instead.

                      "X wouldn't get made today," applies to getting past big producers and global distribution in traditional cinemas. If you know you're primary target is streaming, you're looking at a much more artistically open landscape (though one with plenty of downsides to take into consideration).

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Ghosthead View Post
                        @Doe, while that's exactly what I don't want out of an Exalted show, I do think that's the "Put it all on black and make a high risk bet, and perhaps it'll become a cult pop-culture phenomenon!" kind of a bet, since it seems like the sort of thing that could catch fire in 2021.

                        (What I do want, if there is to be a live action Exalted show, is an adventure heroes show with a bit of a gritty edge, and that sounds like more than a gritty war show with a bit of an heroic adventure edge. I want them to read the whole Storytelling chapter of Exalted 1e and then, er... do that. Emphasis on: Stunts! Melodrama! Romance!)
                        A war story would anchor the show as Solars vs Dragon-Blooded. You get a clear arc. You get definitive reasons why the characters should care. You get clear and present stakes.

                        What do you imagine an adventure series would be about?

                        I wouldn't want a series that establishes that the Sword of Ice is secretly held by Sondok's daughter in Nexus. Or a series where the Dawn finds Fist of Titans in the Tomb of Dreams and uses to fight Volfer. I really don't want the show establishing its own canon.

                        Which is why I like war with the Realm. The Realm is defined, but you don't have to fight Mnemon in Jiara. Because the Realm is defined, and huge, you can fight Ragara Banana in Made-Ups-Ville and still be recognizable as Exalted. How does the High Adventure series differentiate itself as "Exalted" (and not Generic Fantasy Adventure), whilst not treading on other people's games?
                        Last edited by JohnDoe244; 09-09-2021, 07:32 PM.


                        Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

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                        • #42
                          Probably the easiest base for the show to work from would be to focus on the Realm civil war and follow a Dragon Blooded House. I think Game of Thrones showed that there is absolutely the potential for a large fanbase interested in fantasy politics, drama, warfare, etc.

                          If they went with a Solar focused show maybe going with a more adventure-format and looking at shows like Hercules: the Legendary Journeys or Xena: Warrior Princess as inspiration would be a great start. Have the show be a bit episodic involving the Solar character(s) traveling around and doing heroics, but also have a strong through-plot that be used to link the overall series together. But I don't know how well something like that would be received?

                          Well whatever, I don't have any expectations that an Exalted show will even be made, let alone that it will be good. So if anything happens with it I'll be pleasantly surprised.

                          *EDIT* Also why does this theoretical TV show have to be canon? We've had Exalted novels and comic books before and not all of those were canon to the setting.
                          Last edited by AnubisXy; 09-10-2021, 12:32 AM.

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                          • #43
                            Is this live action or animated

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post
                              If they went with a Solar focused show maybe going with a more adventure-format and looking at shows like Hercules: the Legendary Journeys or Xena: Warrior Princess as inspiration would be a great start. Have the show be a bit episodic involving the Solar character(s) traveling around and doing heroics, but also have a strong through-plot that be used to link the overall series together. But I don't know how well something like that would be received?
                              The what few things we've heard from T&J on social media is the intent (at the moment anyway) is to be focused on a newly Exalted Solar.

                              Though I'd again point to Into the Badlands as something a bit more modern and serious than the Hercules/Xena franchise, and a show that was well received (after a rocky start).

                              Also why does this theoretical TV show have to be canon? We've had Exalted novels and comic books before and not all of those were canon to the setting.
                              Very much this.

                              Paradox just released a VtM based battle royale game, which I don't anyone is treating as V5 canon (esp. the mist that's used to decrease map size as play continues).

                              Originally posted by Accelerator View Post
                              Is this live action or animated
                              Nothing actually stated yet, though it seems like they're planning on doing Scion as live action.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post
                                *EDIT* Also why does this theoretical TV show have to be canon? We've had Exalted novels and comic books before and not all of those were canon to the setting.
                                Return of the Scarlet Empress is explicitly not canon. Look what happened.

                                Mnemon vs V'neef civil war is not canon.

                                House Peleps forming a Western Imperial Protectorate is not canon.

                                All of the Chapter Fiction and published art is not canon.

                                How is it treated by the community?


                                Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

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