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  • White Veil is about attacking in plain sight without being suspected or noticed.

    In contrast, Dreaming Pearl Courtesan Style doesn't attempt to conceal what it's doing, or that it has done something. People will see you slap someone silly with your modesty-fan, and they will remember it.

    DPC's stealth component is in being able to walk up to someone you intend to kill without bearing obvious weapons, or to grab and use bedroom paraphernalia to deadly effect. White Veil Style doesn't allow or use weapons at all.

    White Veil Style has basically nothing in the way of defense, because the point is to avoid starting a fight at all. Dreaming Pearl Courtesan is much more defense-worthy, since it doesn't attempt to conceal at all that you're kicking someone's ass.


    These two Styles have some good synergy, though. You can use White Veil to attempt to kill someone secretly, and if you're found out, you can bust into Dreaming Pearl Courtesan to defend yourself while trying to escape, or to attempt killing your target directly using nothing more than your fan or robe-sash.

    Mix in Black Claw Style just to make doubly sure that people assume the half-naked woman fighting off the Dragon-Blood with her own clothing is actually the victim.


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    • Originally posted by Robert Vance View Post
      It's a good style for assassins, or spies, but it's not so hyper-focused that you can't whip out your deathscarf and behead the Abyssal who shows up out of the night to ambush your caravan.
      Is a deathscarf an artifact scarf?

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      • Originally posted by Robert Vance View Post
        None of the above, really. It's about being the Dreaming Pearl Courtesan, someone who winds their way close to the hearts of their victims before slitting their throat with a knitting needle. It's a good style for assassins, or spies, but it's not so hyper-focused that you can't whip out your deathscarf and behead the Abyssal who shows up out of the night to ambush your caravan.
        Originally posted by Jen View Post

        Hmm, does that mean DPC will have some thematic overlap with White Veil Style consider both of them involve killing people in plain sight ?
        Sounds like Black Claw might synergize with it too.


        ....

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        • Dreaming Pearl is about making sure no one sees you as a danger until you make the first strike.
          White Veil is about making sure no one sees you as a danger at all.
          Black Claw, in contrast, is about making sure everyone sees you as a victim, even if they acknowledge you as a danger.

          Thus, I wouldn't imagine there's much synergy between Black Claw and White Veil. A Black Claw stylist needs people to notice her fighting: She can't play the victim card if nobody realizes there's a fight going on.

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          • Originally posted by Mewtarthio View Post
            Dreaming Pearl is about making sure no one sees you as a danger until you make the first strike.
            White Veil is about making sure no one sees you as a danger at all.
            Black Claw, in contrast, is about making sure everyone sees you as a victim, even if they acknowledge you as a danger.

            Thus, I wouldn't imagine there's much synergy between Black Claw and White Veil. A Black Claw stylist needs people to notice her fighting: She can't play the victim card if nobody realizes there's a fight going on.
            Eh it has synergy if you botch the white veil attack and get noticed, then you switch to black claw and play victim if
            they retaliate.


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            • Dreaming Pearl and White Veil can work great together: The Courtesan starts dancing in the center of the court or wherever, right up to her target, and casually touches him flirtatiously (she probably touches many people this way, to ease suspicion) using WV charms on him/them while she does so. If you can't imagine how this would look, then you need to get out to strip joints more often!

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              • Let's talk about Snake Style.

                Previous editions described this as almost an unofficial Solar style, so common to them, that many could teach it to themselves from past life memories. I always assumed it was presented this way just because it happened to be the style in the cores, which were basically the Solar books. But what about Snake really qualifies it as being "Solar-ish"? Personally, I'd rather have Tiger style be "the Solar style", not least because of the Bronze Tiger imagery...

                What do you think?

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                • Originally posted by Hand-of-Omega View Post
                  Let's talk about Snake Style.

                  Previous editions described this as almost an unofficial Solar style, so common to them, that many could teach it to themselves from past life memories. I always assumed it was presented this way just because it happened to be the style in the cores, which were basically the Solar books. But what about Snake really qualifies it as being "Solar-ish"? Personally, I'd rather have Tiger style be "the Solar style", not least because of the Bronze Tiger imagery...

                  What do you think?
                  In 3e, it's possible for a young Solar to have started learning Snake Style (or Tiger, or Dreaming Pearl Courtesan, or...) while he was still a mortal martial artist, and to begin mastering the supernatural heights of the style's potential after his Exaltation. Because of this, there isn't really a need for rigid requirements about having a mentor, and thus, no need to have a style that's intrinsic to Solars, or any other Exalt type. Out of the 11 styles in the corebook, there aren't any that are "Solar-ish," or "more Solar" than any other.


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                  • I don't really see any particular styles as being a Solar inclination the way Snake was previously described. I always found that bit rather odd, assumed it was just because it was the style in the core book and ignored that bit completely, as by the time I started playing there were already other Martial Arts around.


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                    • Originally posted by Robert Vance View Post
                      In 3e, it's possible for a young Solar to have started learning Snake Style (or Tiger, or Dreaming Pearl Courtesan, or...) while he was still a mortal martial artist, and to begin mastering the supernatural heights of the style's potential after his Exaltation. Because of this, there isn't really a need for rigid requirements about having a mentor, and thus, no need to have a style that's intrinsic to Solars, or any other Exalt type. Out of the 11 styles in the corebook, there aren't any that are "Solar-ish," or "more Solar" than any other.
                      That is awesome news!


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                      • And now, for the questions no one dares to ask about: Sidereal Martial Arts! (echo, echo)

                        1) Will SMA have their own Techniques, be able to use Techniques of other styles, or is there just a general pool of Techniques that all styles can work with? Can there be a "mundane" style, or will SMA be more like mystical powers, and need no Techniques?

                        2) With the combat system and mechanics working differently, will SMA still use the Sutra prayer strips for the cost reduction, or will they have another function?

                        3) Are any SMA actually written up yet? Or is it all still in the theoretical phase?

                        4) Will SMA, as advanced powers, be esp good at "building advantage" in combat? Will they need definite downsides to balance them against this?

                        5) It was a bit of a muddle as to who exactly could learn SMA: Solars and Abyssals could, Infernals couldn't. Most of that seems to have been due to copy pasta and such (I'm pretty sure that if Abyssals had gotten full errata, their ability to learn SMA would have been removed). Will SMA now be open to all Solar types, or just Solars? Or even all Celestials?

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                        • Originally posted by Hand-of-Omega View Post
                          1) Will SMA have their own Techniques, be able to use Techniques of other styles, or is there just a general pool of Techniques that all styles can work with? Can there be a "mundane" style, or will SMA be more like mystical powers, and need no Techniques?
                          Not something I've discussed with the devs, but I don't Imagine SMA's having Techniques of their own.

                          2) With the combat system and mechanics working differently, will SMA still use the Sutra prayer strips for the cost reduction, or will they have another function?
                          Sutras are conceptually cool, but the cost-discount mechanic kind of hella sucks. If you precisely calibrated everything around the disparity between Sidereal mote pools and Solar ones and inflated the cost of SMA charms and set the discount to balance it out, maybe, but somehow, I don't think that was what was going through the heads of the Scroll of the Monk writers. We'll see what effect they have.

                          3) Are any SMA actually written up yet? Or is it all still in the theoretical phase?
                          The latter.

                          4) Will SMA, as advanced powers, be esp good at "building advantage" in combat? Will they need definite downsides to balance them against this?
                          SMA are high-level, high-power Charms. They should be good at kicking people's asses in whatever esoteric and mystical ways they choose to kick a man's ass; that ain't something they need a drawback for, just a cost.

                          5) It was a bit of a muddle as to who exactly could learn SMA: Solars and Abyssals could, Infernals couldn't. Most of that seems to have been due to copy pasta and such (I'm pretty sure that if Abyssals had gotten full errata, their ability to learn SMA would have been removed). Will SMA now be open to all Solar types, or just Solars? Or even all Celestials?
                          I would be very, very surprised if was open to all Celestials.


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                          • Since we're asking about SMA: With what are apparently dedicated Melee and Archery styles in the corebook, is there any word on whether it will be possible to have SMAs wired to other combat abilities, as well? That seems like it'd open up a lot of new territory, and would help assuage the issues with Sidereals being locked in to long-term focus in one particular combat ability regardless of the one they main initially..

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                            • Originally posted by Gayo View Post
                              Since we're asking about SMA: With what are apparently dedicated Melee and Archery styles in the corebook, is there any word on whether it will be possible to have SMAs wired to other combat abilities, as well? That seems like it'd open up a lot of new territory, and would help assuage the issues with Sidereals being locked in to long-term focus in one particular combat ability regardless of the one they main initially..
                              I, for one, have long hoped it would be like this. So many of the SMAs felt like they should have been in other abilities all along. War for Scarlet Patterned Battlefield, Socialize for Sapphire Veil of Passions, Medicine for Citrine Poxes of Contagion...

                              That would help to explain their esoteric nature; it's a pretty odd Martial technique that would let you, say, steal someone's heart out of their chest.

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                              • Hunh, I don't even remember Scarlet Patterned Battlefield. Is that from SotM?

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