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Why would a solar ever use evocations?

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  • Why would a solar ever use evocations?

    I know that the devs have said that the solars will be the best at them, but wouldn't a solar be smarter to just invent a melee charm for whatever evocations their weapon might do?

  • #2
    If a Solar wants to turn the ground into molten lava, he can't do that with his own charms. He can do it with Sorcery or an Evocation (or possibly a really weird Martial Art).

    One reason to pick up Evocations for the same reason you pick up Sorcery or Martial Arts. To do things you can't normally do with charms.

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    • #3
      First an evocation might be easier to work with than creating a charm.

      Second, as I understand evocations, they might grant powers that aren't normally part of a purview for a solar. For example one of the powers of the artifact diaklave Volcano Cutter is called "Pyroclastic Holocaust Judgement" call me crazy but that sounds very much like a power that ends with a massive eruption of fire and molten rock. Which would very much be in line for a fire aspect dragon blood, but a solar doesn't normally have access to attacks that go off like a volcano.

      Third there's a level of pride in being able to access and use a weapon better than anyone else. I mean lets face it the honest pride in being able to use a weapon to the point where everything about it is open and available to use has gotta be good for the ego.

      Fourth, maybe it never occurred to the solar that a power like that could be done. The solar could make a melee charm too but they might have learned of the principles of it through using an evocation and then created a charm because its a really useful power and they want it even if the weapon is lost for some reason.

      Finally, who knows it might cost less to use evocations than charms.

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      • #4
        Why use a daiklaive when you can use Glorious Solar Saber? Why wear armor when you can use Iron Kettle Body?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by The Lidless Eye That Sees View Post
          I know that the devs have said that the solars will be the best at them, but wouldn't a solar be smarter to just invent a melee charm for whatever evocations their weapon might do?
          Well, we know little enough about Evocations to say for sure, but some possible reasons include:

          (1) Evocations can allow for out-of-native-theme effects (can't be a Solar Charm; Solar Charms can't conjure magma, for example).
          (2) Evocations may be able to be bought from a separate XP pool than Charms. If Solar XP is implemented (it was mentioned previously and is listed on the 3e wiki) as a second pool to buy things aside from Solar native Charms, double your pleasure to increase your power.
          (3) Evocations may be always-on effects for the person who unlocked them. As in, no mote/Willpower costs. That's a definite advantage over a Charm.
          (4) Adding on to (3), Evocations may not have a Type, unlike Charms, so may provide bonuses to Combos that an otherwise-equal Charm could not because of Type rules for Combos (not being able to use 2 Simples at the same time, for example, or Supplementals only being able to be used to supplement the Simple in the Combo).
          (5) Coolness factor? Seems like 3e is taking the view that "native Charms are not like techniques." Maybe Evocations are more like techniques (always work in a certain way, possibly flashy in a way that Solar Charms, as extensions of the inherent Awesomeness of the user, may not be).


          "Chicanery-No: If a player uses this Charm in an abusive or exploitative manner, the ST may punch him right in the goddamn face." --TheDementedOne

          "Happiness is very brittle and short-lived in the Exalted community, because ressentiment is our cultural touchstone." --Gayo

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          • #6
            Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post
            One reason to pick up Evocations for the same reason you pick up Sorcery or Martial Arts. To do things you can't normally do with charms.
            Case in point, while various tables' tastes may vary, I suspect most would be gobsmacked if someone tried to present homebrew Solar Melee Charms that did this:
            Originally posted by John Mørke
            Sample of Evocations: The daiklave called Stormcaller sleeps in its sheathe. When drawn, a hurricane begins to form overhead. Its Evocations both draw from the storm's ferocity, and add to it. The character must carefully draw down and disperse the storm before sheathing Stormcaller. Apex Evocation involves sheathing the weapon early to disperse the storm in a massive directional stormblast capable of flooring a behemoth.
            NOTE: The hurricane isn't a special effect. It is an actual hurricane.
            Last edited by Gaius; 07-13-2014, 01:13 AM.


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            • #7
              Originally posted by Wretch View Post
              Why use a daiklaive when you can use Glorious Solar Saber? Why wear armor when you can use Iron Kettle Body?
              Commitment costs, for one thing. GSS is overpriced compared to a solid metal weapon, and you can get comparable stats with a good MM pick and a harmonic adapter.

              Action economy for another. GSS is Simple, welp, there's your action and your Charm use, summoning your weapon. Same for IKB next round. Versus just wearing armor and carrying a weapon, which is not going to turn heads in a lot of places anyway.


              "Chicanery-No: If a player uses this Charm in an abusive or exploitative manner, the ST may punch him right in the goddamn face." --TheDementedOne

              "Happiness is very brittle and short-lived in the Exalted community, because ressentiment is our cultural touchstone." --Gayo

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              • #8
                Originally posted by The Lidless Eye That Sees View Post
                I know that the devs have said that the solars will be the best at them, but wouldn't a solar be smarter to just invent a melee charm for whatever evocations their weapon might do?
                Because developing a Charm that makes my sword impossible to pick up unless you're true of heart (read: possessing my Exaltation shard) doesn't really make sense, but developing an evocation to do the same does.


                A Green Sun Destrier

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by kongurous View Post
                  Because developing a Charm that makes my sword impossible to pick up unless you're true of heart (read: possessing my Exaltation shard) doesn't really make sense, but developing an evocation to do the same does.
                  Huh? that is a good Evocation for a Goremaul based on Thor's Hammer.


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                  • #10
                    Once you have seen an Evocation, you will immediately understand why they cannot be replicated through native Solar Charms. They're just...totally two different dogs. One day is a master swordsman on the level of Zatoichi, Kenshin Himura, or Cloud Strife. The other dog goes woof and triggers a massive explosion of lava. That kind of dogs.


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                    • #11
                      Solars use Evocations for the same reason Captain America uses his Shield or Thor uses his hammer. Sure, they're super soldiers/demi gods who can kick all kinds of ass in without it, but sometimes you just want to slam a large hunk of metal in to someone's face for that satisfying "clang"*, ya know?

                      *Said clang may or may not involve conjuring up the primal fury of a hurricane or volcano, use at risk of the surrounding countryside/population.

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                      • #12
                        If evocations were like charms they would be called 'charms'.

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                        • #13
                          1: It's evocative of many stories that Exalted is inspired by. Items like Son Wukong's Staff, Mjolnir, Excalibur, maybe even Hercules' invulnerable lion king cloak are all items that can be recreated with evocations. Having a hero who carries around this legendary weapon with which he can cut mountains in half is absolutely something that is appropriate for a game like Exalted.

                          2: It makes the player interested in their weapon. Not to harp on D&D or anything, but, for example, if my character wields a greatsword in D&D that was given to him by his father in his dying breath, well in-character I have a reason to keep that weapon. But out of character, I will pick up a greatsword+1 as soon as possible, because it's mechanically more useful for me. Having Evocations makes your weapon scale with your character, in a sense, so that you have a mechanical reason to be attached to your weapon, if you want your character to be.

                          3: Having a sword that can turn the battlefield into a burning hellscape with a short chant and a couple of swings is something that makes sense as an evocation, but not as a charm.

                          4: It is really, really cool.


                          I made some Martial Arts for 3e, look at them here and here.

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                          • #14
                            In the 2e corebook there are a bunch of artifact weapons with unusual powers from the first age. It seems to me that evocations are a way of bringing that sort of theme into the forefront and making it standard operating procedure.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by HaplessWithDice View Post
                              Huh? that is a good Evocation for a Goremaul based on Thor's Hammer.
                              That was the idea.


                              A Green Sun Destrier

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