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  • If a demon is sorcerously bound for a year-and-a-day, and the demon's summoner is slain before that period ends, what happens to the demon?

    I assume it:
    A) is freed into Creation
    B) is sent back to Malfeas
    or
    C) continues to follow the last order given to the best of its ability for the remainder of the year-and-a-day.

    Thoughts?


    DrLoveMonkey - "On the other hand having a warhammer that's basically a steel beer keg on the end of a seven foot pole is fucking awesome."

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    • Originally posted by Octopoid View Post
      If a demon is sorcerously bound for a year-and-a-day, and the demon's summoner is slain before that period ends, what happens to the demon?

      I assume it:
      A) is freed into Creation
      B) is sent back to Malfeas
      or
      C) continues to follow the last order given to the best of its ability for the remainder of the year-and-a-day.

      Thoughts?
      If it doesn't impact the order then I wold think the demon continues on to finish the task. So if a sorcerer summons Sondok to protect their family during a seige or something then Sondok will remain until the time terms of the binding end even if the caster is killed in the battle before that point.

      If it does impact the order then I imagine the demon might have a little time to handle something that might be allowable as a fail state in the order before returning to Malfeas. Like summoning a demon bodyguard will probably remain for a bit to try and dispose of those who slew its summoner* and of course verify that the summoner is in fact dead. Which order it handles those will probably vary based on demon, and possibly reason for presumed death.

      *Not like spend the remaining time hunting them down, but like if the sorcerer got taken down by a lucky shot from a bunch of bandits on a road then the demon is probably going to be able to slaughter the bandits it can and drive off the others.

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      • Also, if the demon goes back to Malfeas, you eliminate the possibility of having a demon bound to a long-forgotten manse, or under an almost impossible order of a sorcered who died back in the Shogunate era. Which are cool possibilities

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        • Originally posted by Octopoid View Post
          If a demon is sorcerously bound for a year-and-a-day, and the demon's summoner is slain before that period ends, what happens to the demon?

          I assume it:
          A) is freed into Creation
          B) is sent back to Malfeas
          or
          C) continues to follow the last order given to the best of its ability for the remainder of the year-and-a-day.

          Thoughts?
          Back in Kingdom of Halta (for First Edition) there's a bit discussing the war between the Bull of the North and the Tepet Legions.

          Originally posted by Kingdom of Halta page 40
          In the course of this battle, fire elementals commanded by both sides burned the entire forest, and a trio of First Circle demons escaped to prey upon the countryside when the Bull himself killed both of the Dragon-Blooded sorcerers who had been controlled the demons.
          So the implication seems to be that demons can stick around after their summoner's death, and that they they can generally do whatever they want (like prey on the countryside).

          I use a house rule in my own games - whenever a sorcerer who has summoned a demon into their service (but not taskbound that demon) is killed, the demon immediately rolls its Permanent Essence. First Circle demons roll against a difficulty of 1. Second Circle Demons roll against a difficulty of 3. Third Circle demons roll against a difficulty of 5. If they succeed, they can remain indefinitely in Creation, while on a failure they are instantly forced back into Malfeas (or at least into Cecelyne from which they have to spend 5 days walking back to the demon city).

          As a Storyteller I find that this allows me to keep demons around in Creation after their summoner's death, or just handwave them back to Malfeas depending on the needs of the story. Sometimes it's awesome to have a deceased Sorcerer's demons stick around, but sometimes it's kind of a bother and easier just to have them go away.

          And, of course, for taskbound demons seem to stay in the world indefinitely until their task is finished. I believe there are some examples of demons who have been stuck in Creation since the Usurpation, continuing to carry out their tasks many centuries after their summoner was killed.

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          • If some summons Octavian then I kill his summon with ghost eating technique is Octavian still alive in Malfeas? If so do what happens to his corpse and armor and weapons are they also duplicated or do they just disappear?

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            • Originally posted by WalkingEye View Post
              If some summons Octavian then I kill his summon with ghost eating technique is Octavian still alive in Malfeas?
              ​I'm not sure if Octavian is really one of the ones who can exist in multiple places simultaneously, but yes; if you kill Octavian with Ghost-Eating Technique, he is dead for good.

              Originally posted by WalkingEye
              If so do what happens to his corpse and armor and weapons are they also duplicated or do they just disappear?
              ​Spirits don't really leave corpses, and I don't think Octavian wears armour. I think that even for those spirits who can be in more than one place, their arms generally aren't (although I'd have to check what prior Editions' versions of associated Charms said).


              I have approximate knowledge of many things.
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              • How "valid" would it be to have a magical weapon that isn't an Artifact? Like ...... weapon, dream-given to a character, where the only magical aspects of the weapon are that it comes loaded with the first two Charms and definitive Form of White Reaper Style. Other than that, it is an otherwise "mundane" nonmagical weapon?

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                • Originally posted by Octopoid View Post
                  If a demon is sorcerously bound for a year-and-a-day, and the demon's summoner is slain before that period ends, what happens to the demon?

                  I assume it:
                  A) is freed into Creation
                  B) is sent back to Malfeas
                  or
                  C) continues to follow the last order given to the best of its ability for the remainder of the year-and-a-day.

                  Thoughts?
                  D) The demon's Defining Tie of loyalty to the summoner remains unchanged. The summoner just happens to be dead.

                  Quoth Vance:

                  "A year-and-day demon ... stays bound to you past your death, and does what its loyalty urges it to. A blood ape will avenge you, a neomah might draw out some of your blood before you die so that your lineage might live on."


                  Developer for Exalted.

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                  • This is the coolest answer.


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                    • Originally posted by Boston123 View Post
                      How "valid" would it be to have a magical weapon that isn't an Artifact? Like ...... weapon, dream-given to a character, where the only magical aspects of the weapon are that it comes loaded with the first two Charms and definitive Form of White Reaper Style. Other than that, it is an otherwise "mundane" nonmagical weapon?
                      Go for it. After all, if I enchant a mundane sword with a sorcerous working, I don't expect it to suddenly gain the stats of a daiklave.

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                      • Edit: I should search before asking questions in the future.

                        Edit2: After searching and reading up on the rules for combining charms I actually have another question:

                        Is Hail Shattering Practice actually restricted to removing successes from an enemy attack only when you're defending with your Melee Parry, or clashing with a Melee Attack? Or could you HSP to remove successes from an attack and then defend with Evasion or MA/Brawl Parry/Clash it?

                        I had always assumed it was restricted to use during Melee parries and attacks but I can't find the textual support for it.

                        "Reflexive Charms which enhance static values may generally only enhance static values deriving
                        from their governing Ability, unless otherwise indicated."

                        But HSP doesn't actually enhance your parry (or your attack in a clash) but rather inflicts a penalty on your attacker.

                        I guess the same pretty much applies to Doe Eyes Defense.
                        Last edited by limaxophobiac; 07-09-2017, 11:07 AM.

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                        • Originally posted by limaxophobiac View Post
                          Edit: I should search before asking questions in the future.

                          Edit2: After searching and reading up on the rules for combining charms I actually have another question:

                          Is Hail Shattering Practice actually restricted to removing successes from an enemy attack only when you're defending with your Melee Parry, or clashing with a Melee Attack? Or could you HSP to remove successes from an attack and then defend with Evasion or MA/Brawl Parry/Clash it?

                          I had always assumed it was restricted to use during Melee parries and attacks but I actually can't find the textual support for it.

                          "Reflexive Charms which enhance static values may generally only enhance static values deriving
                          from their governing Ability, unless otherwise indicated."

                          But HSP doesn't actually enhance your parry (or your attack in a clash) but rather inflicts a penalty on your attacker.

                          I guess the same pretty much applies to Doe Eyes Defense.
                          I would say that since Hail Shattering Practice is an offshoot of DIpping Swallow Defense then it can't be used if you're not parrying the attack. So I'd say you can't follow it up with something like Drifting Leaf Elusion. Upside the other attack doesn't have to be melee in order to be targeted just able to be parried.

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                          • Originally posted by nalak42 View Post
                            I would say that since Hail Shattering Practice is an offshoot of DIpping Swallow Defense then it can't be used if you're not parrying the attack. So I'd say you can't follow it up with something like Drifting Leaf Elusion. Upside the other attack doesn't have to be melee in order to be targeted just able to be parried.
                            To be clear you mean parrying the attack with your Melee Parry?

                            How is it an offshoot other than having it as a prerequisite? There's plenty of charms that have prerequisite charms with completely unrelated effects and I don't think there's anything that says that rules that affect a prerequisite charm will affect charms further down the tree.

                            I mean I don't really think allowing HSP to work together with defenses and attacks of other abilities is a good rule, because clashing with HSP or Doe Eyes alone is already stupid enough without allowing them to be comboed. I'm just trying to clear up what the rules for using charms of diffrent abilities actually are.
                            Last edited by limaxophobiac; 07-09-2017, 04:26 PM.

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                            • Speaking of clash shenanigans, I have another question on them: Can you clash an attack you can't otherwise defend against, like unblockable + undodgable attacks?

                              There doesn't seem like there's anything that says you can't, but OTOH it seems crazy powerfull if Fervent Blow can essentially double as a 4m activation of Heavenly Guardian Defense while also giving you an attack, letting you defend yourself against an Ambush attack or a Single Point style Blinding Nova Flare by clashing it.

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                              • I might need to go to the ask the devs for this, but figured I'd try hear first.
                                Would it be within the purview of a god to use a charm like Ahlat's War God Mandate to grant a mortal access to Martial Arts charms in their domain? I have a traditionalist city god looking to balance the odds when an upstart Solar(Ma-Supernal) son challenges his mortal father to a duel.


                                Restoring demonic glory in Infernals:What Hell Has Wrought

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