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  • Originally posted by Magnus K View Post
    Just realised after our first session in my new campaign, that I, as a GM, am not 100% sure how Lore works, in that I am not sure if a field of specialty counts as a specialization or not. The Core seems a bit unclear on this (or I may be blind, sometimes I miss things, despite having read the Core many times previously). For instance, one of my players have made a Twilight, and he started with lore 5. He chose the Wyld as his field of study, and I told him that it doesn't count as a specialty, and that a speciality was more Lore:The Wyld (the raksha) or something like that. But I am open to changing my mind with new info, because I am not sure. I am also leaning towards giving him maybe an extra, maybe even two, more fields of knowledge, since I am of the personal opinion that a Savant with Lore 5 maybe ought to be a bit more worldly than just "the Wyld" etc. What are your solutions to this, as Story Tellers ? I am very much open for advice
    I'm afraid you're not quite there yet.

    The background relates more to where the character picked up his knowledge. It has nothing to do with the specialties in the game. So for instance, if a character was trained at the feet of a lunar master in all things lore, they'd likely know a ton about the wyld, lunar social structures, the realm's affect on the fringe, the usurpation, etc. What they wouldn't know anything about and would not be able to roll about at all is things like the social structure in Autochthonia, or the secret alliances of the houses in the Realm (unless the lunar master was recently an infiltrator of the Realm or something)

    Another example would be a DB trained by the immaculate order, would likely know that Solars and lunars are exalted but that they're tragically doomed to madness and must be put down for the good of all. They wouldn't likely know much about the secret dealings of the lunars or the underworld other than how it affects the Realm and the Immaculate philosophy.

    This is all to do with the difficulty of the "Introduce a Fact" roll (Exalted page 237). So if a player wanted to introduce a fact 'Ma-Ha-Suchi is trying to get build alliances to destroy Great Forks' you as a ST would first have to determine if that was even a roll that could be made. If you determine that it could be true in your story then the two characters described above would have greatly different difficulties based on their backgrounds. IE, the one who learned from a lunar may have difficulty 1-3 while the DB might have difficulty 5-10 all based on how much you'd rather your campaign didn't go that route. Note that a DB with Lore 1 who trained in the same place as the DB with lore 5 would face the same difficulty.

    Be wary of allowing players to introduce outlandish things as if they succeed at the roll you set, those things become the absolute truth for your game. So if you allow a roll to see if all the lunars decide to submit to the wyld hunt and your player succeeds at that roll, then for some reason, all the lunars are on their way to their deaths/ permanent imprisonment.

    Specialties seem like they're a pretty good way to model picking up additional information as you play so you're not just limited to your starting background for introducing a fact. They also still function as normal, so if if your character took lore: (the raksha) they'd still get the bonus dice whether they trained in the realm or out in the bordermarches. The difficulty for introducing facts would still be different though probably less so than without the specialty.


    Check out my homebrew exalt: The Fabulists - Chosen of the Raksha here

    Comment


    • Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
      Honestly, it is unclear.

      I believe that the idea is that you have some Fields of Study, representing your background. And so these can be fairly wide. For example, in my North-Eastern game we have a Toad-totem swamp shaman with Lore 4. So his fields of study cover plants of the North-East, animals of the North-East, local history, nations and cultures of the North, etc. But not, say, nations of the South, or calculus, or the major monarchs of the Scavenger Lands, or the plants of the Cinder Coast.

      Note that you don't just get 1 field of study. It's what makes sense for your background. So he probably, as well as knowing all about the Wyld, knows about local political systems, local history, etc. (I don't know his background, so these are just examples.)

      The issue is that the book sometimes refers to these as Specializations or Specialities.

      But then at the same time, there's your normal Specializations like you'd have with any ability, that give you +1 dice.
      So these might be the same, or they might not.


      TBH, Lore 5 (The Wyld +1) is probably fine. (I think I'd put Raksha as an Occult specialty anyway. Though others might not agree.)
      This is something essential that I had missed completely. That you got more fields of study that is. I have completely missed that in the Core, and decided myself, that a character with Lore 5 ought to have more without knowing that it actually was in the book. Again, thanks ! Makes a lot of sense.

      Comment


      • Yeah, I think once you get what they're going for, it does make a lot of sense. It's just not explained all that clearly.


        My characters:
        Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
        Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng
        Shadow of Kings, Twilight barbarian scholar, master of lost First Age crafting techniques. Has a lot of clones. Picture by Jen.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by armyofwhispers View Post
          I'm afraid you're not quite there yet.

          The background relates more to where the character picked up his knowledge. It has nothing to do with the specialties in the game. So for instance, if a character was trained at the feet of a lunar master in all things lore, they'd likely know a ton about the wyld, lunar social structures, the realm's affect on the fringe, the usurpation, etc. What they wouldn't know anything about and would not be able to roll about at all is things like the social structure in Autochthonia, or the secret alliances of the houses in the Realm (unless the lunar master was recently an infiltrator of the Realm or something)

          Another example would be a DB trained by the immaculate order, would likely know that Solars and lunars are exalted but that they're tragically doomed to madness and must be put down for the good of all. They wouldn't likely know much about the secret dealings of the lunars or the underworld other than how it affects the Realm and the Immaculate philosophy.

          This is all to do with the difficulty of the "Introduce a Fact" roll (Exalted page 237). So if a player wanted to introduce a fact 'Ma-Ha-Suchi is trying to get build alliances to destroy Great Forks' you as a ST would first have to determine if that was even a roll that could be made. If you determine that it could be true in your story then the two characters described above would have greatly different difficulties based on their backgrounds. IE, the one who learned from a lunar may have difficulty 1-3 while the DB might have difficulty 5-10 all based on how much you'd rather your campaign didn't go that route. Note that a DB with Lore 1 who trained in the same place as the DB with lore 5 would face the same difficulty.

          Be wary of allowing players to introduce outlandish things as if they succeed at the roll you set, those things become the absolute truth for your game. So if you allow a roll to see if all the lunars decide to submit to the wyld hunt and your player succeeds at that roll, then for some reason, all the lunars are on their way to their deaths/ permanent imprisonment.

          Specialties seem like they're a pretty good way to model picking up additional information as you play so you're not just limited to your starting background for introducing a fact. They also still function as normal, so if if your character took lore: (the raksha) they'd still get the bonus dice whether they trained in the realm or out in the bordermarches. The difficulty for introducing facts would still be different though probably less so than without the specialty.
          Thank you very much for your contribution. I will consider your words ! I am seriously very grateful to all of you
          Last edited by Magnus K; 06-10-2019, 01:46 PM.

          Comment


          • The Core book is unclear but there are 3 separate concepts for Lore knowledge :

            -A character's Lore Topics - that is, individual subjects they study or learn about during the game. This determines what they can roll on and the difficulty of the rolls.

            -A character's "Lore Background" - that is, everything that is encompassed by their Lore rating at character creation. A Lore background generally encompasses multiple Lore Topics.

            -A character's Lore Specialties - as with any other Ability, things that get a bonus dice. You can know a Lore Topic without having a specialty in it (i.e. you know maths, but you're not that good at it), and you can have a specialty without knowing everything it encompasses (i.e. you're knowledgeable about minerals, but you've never seen or heard about soulsteel in your life)

            Basically, at creation the character gets anything that would make sense for their character as part of their Lore Background. As a general rule the more things someone wants to know about from the start, the higher you should expect their Lore Rating to be. Then afterwards if they want to learn new things they learn them piecemeal as Lore topics.

            Comment


            • To give an example:

              Wizard of Oz
              Lore 3 (+1 History)

              Lore topics include general high school knowledge of a British student, history, English linguistics, English teaching theory, cities I've lived in, China, politics, theology and religions, mythology, fantasy novels, roleplaying games, etc.

              So, if I was making a Lore roll to know something about, say, Brazil, the difficulty would be much higher than about China, because I lived in China for 4 years but not Brazil. The ST may even declare I can't roll at all. If I'm making a roll to know about the grammar structures of English, it's going to have a much lower difficulty than knowing about the grammar structures of, say, Russian, because I've never studied Russian linguistics. So for example, knowing about the tense structures of English might be difficulty 1, and for Russian difficulty 5 (if I can roll at all).

              However, while I can use my Lore 3 for both History and English Language Teaching at a low difficulty, as I'm qualified in both to a similar level, I was actually better at History than English Language Teaching (I failed half the coursework on my English Teaching post-grad, the first time), so I get +1 dice. The difficulty is probably the same between them though.
              Last edited by The Wizard of Oz; 06-10-2019, 03:50 PM.


              My characters:
              Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
              Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng
              Shadow of Kings, Twilight barbarian scholar, master of lost First Age crafting techniques. Has a lot of clones. Picture by Jen.

              Comment


              • Thanks again to everyone above.

                I was googling for Lookshyan calendar and timeline and timelines for lands outside the Realm, and did not find any other to that of the Realm (maybe it is my google fu that is bad). Now, I have almost all first and second edition books, but most of those are in crates at my mothers place collecting dust, so they are not really available for me now to search through. I was therefore wondering if anyone knows of parallel timelines for the other major powers, such as the Confederacy of Rivers and therefore Lookshy, or if such material has not been published at all? I don't really remember reading about this this in 1st and 2nd edition.

                In advance, thanks for taking the time to answer my question !

                Comment


                • Lookshy's calendar is in 1st ed Outcastes. It's a very complicated animal-based system.

                  Autocthon had a calendar tracing years back to leaving Creation.


                  My characters:
                  Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
                  Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng
                  Shadow of Kings, Twilight barbarian scholar, master of lost First Age crafting techniques. Has a lot of clones. Picture by Jen.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                    If I'm making a roll to know about the grammar structures of English, it's going to have a much lower difficulty than knowing about the grammar structures of, say, Russian, because I've never studied Russian linguistics. So for example, knowing about the tense structures of English might be difficulty 1, and for Russian difficulty 5 (if I can roll at all).
                    Genuine question:

                    In 3E, wouldn't those be Linguistics rolls?


                    Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
                      Genuine question:

                      In 3E, wouldn't those be Linguistics rolls?

                      Seems very likely to me.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
                        Genuine question:

                        In 3E, wouldn't those be Linguistics rolls?
                        I think it's arguable that it could be done with lore if you're specifically a scholar of linguistics.

                        The linguistics ability would definitely be the roll if you're looking to write something in the style of a particular area or simply write anything in English, but I think if you're looking to identify what era a particular piece of writing came from based on the language structure you'd be rolling lore.

                        Then again, I think I'd also let a player use linguistics to come up with that knowledge if they stunt it appropriately.


                        Check out my homebrew exalt: The Fabulists - Chosen of the Raksha here

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by armyofwhispers View Post
                          I think it's arguable that it could be done with lore if you're specifically a scholar of linguistics.
                          I think it could definitely be done with Lore, yeah - Lore covers a very broad range of topics on the academic side. I'd certainly rate someone who knew a great deal about historical and comparative linguistics as having a high Lore rating. To me, the question is not "could Lore do this?" but rather "can other Abilities do this?" Given the context the example was originally brought up in was for rolls to introduce facts, I think the RAW answer is actually "no, they couldn't". By the book, only the Lore ability, rated at 3 or higher, can be used to introduce facts.

                          Now, if you're talking a more general "can you roll an Ability other than Lore to know stuff about its field", then I'd say the answer is yes. (When that's even required - 3e actually has no mechanic for this, and I think that's deliberate, they don't want to slow down the game too much by having people roll to see if they know something basic. Better to just say "yeah, you know that".) But just knowing something doesn't have the same narrative utility that introducing a fact does - there's really no guarantee that the fact will be useful to the story in the same way. Note that there are actual charms that allow some other ability to be used to introduce facts - Wild-Wandering Forester’s Charm in Dragon-Blood Survival, for example. That suggests to me that just stunting is probably not enough to allow fact introduction with other Abilities besides Lore.

                          I do think the RAW situation is probably a little overly harsh, though. I'd suggest the following house rule and charm:

                          House rule: Introducing a fact in your field
                          If you have 3 or more dots in another Ability, or one dot and an appropriate specialty, you don't need Lore 3 to introduce facts in that area. You still roll (Wits or Intelligence) + Lore to do so, but you can do so untrained. So, for example, if you had Sail 3 (or Sail 1 with a specialty of "Navigating") and Lore 1, you could roll (Intelligence + Lore) to declare a fact like "there's a rocky shoal in this channel we could try to lead our enemy onto." or "the sky might look stormy, but weather around here in this season tends to blow by fast. We won't get worse than a squall."

                          The charm:

                          Wide-Ranging Expertise Approach
                          Cost: —; Mins: Lore 3, Essence 1
                          Type: Permanent
                          Keywords: None
                          Duration: Permanent
                          Prerequisite Charms: None

                          The mind of the Copper Spider is an endless well of useful information, and she is not limited to knowledge contained only in dusty tomes or taught in sterile classrooms - learning any skill involves not just technique, but background information as well. The Solar may make a roll to introduce or challenge a fact (Exalted, pp. 237-238) using (Intelligence + any Ability she possesses at 3+ dots), with (Lore/2) bonus successes. The difficulty of this roll is assigned as normal for introducing or challenging a fact, though it should generally be 1 or 2 higher than doing the same with Lore. The Solar may still only make one roll to introduce a fact per scene. Facts introduced or challenged must always be appropriate to the Ability being rolled, including requiring a relevant speciality or background - Craft (Architecture) could be rolled to introduce the fact that a bridge is unstable and prone to collapse, for instance, while Melee could be rolled to identify the provenance of an opponent's swordsmanship and thus his teacher, if the Solar had travelled through the region the master lived previously.

                          Comment


                          • Tbh, if I'm not sure which ability to apply, I tend to let players choose. So I often say "you can roll survival or medicine" or "you can roll larceny or socialise" or something like that.

                            I think that knowledge of progressive tenses, relative clauses, the accusative case, etc, is Lore, while writing a good poem is Linguistics. Certainly, while I can explain the difference between the Future Perfect Passive and the Past Perfect Continuous... I can't write a good poem.

                            But tbh, I'd probably tell players "you can roll Int+Linguistics or Int+Lore".


                            My characters:
                            Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
                            Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng
                            Shadow of Kings, Twilight barbarian scholar, master of lost First Age crafting techniques. Has a lot of clones. Picture by Jen.

                            Comment


                            • The resources you spend in combat on your charms are, at least usually, motes (m), sorcerous motes (sm), willpower (wp), initiative (i) and anima levels (a).

                              How do you folks value the various these relative to ordinary motes of Essence?

                              Comment


                              • Hmmm....
                                I generally value about 1wp to 5m, 1i to 2m, and 10m to 5sm.

                                But it does depend a bit; if you've got a ton of motes and no willpower, then you may value willpower a lot more.

                                And sorcerous motes are much more valuable in combat than outside of combat.


                                My characters:
                                Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
                                Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng
                                Shadow of Kings, Twilight barbarian scholar, master of lost First Age crafting techniques. Has a lot of clones. Picture by Jen.

                                Comment

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