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  • That Solar also only escaped the Imperial Manse after the Empress had vanished and the prison(?) within it had gone unattended(?) for some time, and it wasn't just that one Solar -- the fiction makes it pretty clear that the problem is all the Anathema imprisoned in there have escaped. There's a list and everything.

    There's probably a story behind that jailbreak, and it probably doesn't involve every escaped Anathema having independently developed the ability to pull it off. We don't know how difficult it was, if there was a ringleader, the degree of cooperation between the escapees, whether there were any who did not escape and in fact died heroically holding the way open for the rest, etc.

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    • [QUOTE=The Wizard of Oz;n1323705
      (I'll also point out to the person earlier who mentioned the Night escaping from the Imperial Manse, I forget who, that they were a Night Caste, the caste best at escaping. It doesn't mean a Solar artist or blacksmith or sailor or archer could definitely do the same.)[/QUOTE]

      Yeah that was me. I don't neccessarily like the implications of that. "Take the Twilight blacksmith hostage and kill the Night."

      It's more interesting to me if the blacksmith can learn to pick the locks. Not neccessarily will but could.


      Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

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      • Oh sure. Almost anyone could, potentially. You don't know until you try. It's just not very likely.

        And obviously it's much less likely for the Solar blacksmith than the Night thief; but still, not impossible.

        (Although, were I playing the Solar Blacksmith, I think I'd probably try and find a way to break the locks with my knowledge of metallurgy rather than pick them. Or maybe construct a skeleton key from small bits of rock I've painstakingly clawed from the walls. Something like that.)


        My characters:
        Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
        Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng
        Shadow of Kings, Twilight barbarian scholar, master of lost First Age crafting techniques. Has a lot of clones. Picture by Jen.

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        • Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
          Yeah, the fact that Tiger Warrior Training can turn any peasant who can do the training into an elite soldier is part of the charm's power.

          But of you're training people normally, while you can improve everyone, some people are never going to be great at it.
          Alternatively, Tiger Warrior Training isn't for everybody, even if the people that aren't well suited to it shouldn't be turning up in any of these scenarios unless it's appropriately dramatic.

          Like, considering the nature of the game, most of this is governed by the question of being appropriately dramatic. Your player character is never going to be imprisoned in a manner without recourse to escape because... then the game just stops. The circumstances were different for X NPC because it's necessary for the backstory, and is plausible enough.

          The contention of the capabilities of any given character would arise from a notion that the setting contains complex multitudes, even among the Exalted. The most objectionable thing to me in asserting a certain uniformity of capability is in reducing those complexities, and thus making the Exalted less varied and interesting.

          Certainly, that old quote about how the inevitable trajectory of the Solar Exalted is rising to a point of legitimately feeling as though they're above and beyond everything reminds me of an old existential horror. I find a much more engaging picture of the ages to arise from an assumption that most Exalted are going to peak at Essence 4, at the same time as the capabilities of the Exalted in that range were reigned in a bit.


          I have approximate knowledge of many things.
          Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
          https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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          • Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
            Certainly, that old quote about how the inevitable trajectory of the Solar Exalted is rising to a point of legitimately feeling as though they're above and beyond everything reminds me of an old existential horror.
            To me that was always the point of Exalted. Beware if fighting monsters and all that jazz.

            I'm wedded to the idea of Creation as the secret history of the World of Darkness. Without the PCs, the Black Spiral twists Creation into a ball of Earth, the descendents of the Lunars become the Fera, the Dragon-Blooded are twisted into the Kindred of the East forever bound to the Ebon Dragon (and his love only of doomed things) and their Scarlet Queen, Lieger dies and The Wyrm (who was Malfeas who was Theion) rules over his twisted Malfean domain as his new Herald, The Red Sun, dreams of ending the world, the Unconquered Sun is cast from the heavens and becomes The Lightbringer locked in eternal war with the creator of the world, Little Beam (or maybe Ahlat) takes his place as Helios alongside Luna, and so forth. The PCs can delay this terrible future, perhaps building a kingdom of peace and prosperity that lasts for ten-thousand years... but the wheel doesn't stop turning, and eventually The World of Darkness will be born.

            The impending tragedy that doom will come is lent gravitas by the fact that it might come from your own hand. That, on some level, the Usurpation might not have been right but that it was justified. That the Anathema are ultimately doomed, if not by the Malfean's great curse, then simply by their own nature.

            But, that's just me. Vampire was a formative RPG for me and I need that hint of personal horror. And Exalted providing that by being so awesome that it's terrifying (Dr. Manhatten style) is a fundemental part of what the game is about to me.

            Being so awesome that you terrify the slave holding imperialistic autocrats who rule the world is less interesting to me than being so awesome that you are an existential threat to all reality.

            But that doesn't really affect day-in day-out playing of the game.


            Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

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            • You know, all this talk of existential dread made me think of that Murphy POV of the main character (Dresden) in the book series, Dresden Files.

              When we see it from Dresden's point of view, its always a... laugh. Dorky, kinda corny. Pop culture jokes. LIttle star tre references. A detective. Always hard fighting against stronger folks. He seemed like kinda nice and relatable, like a big fluffy dog. The kind of guy you'll share pizza with, or talk about star trek.

              Then we see it from the Murphy POV (a cop who works alongside him). He's terrifying. He can melt entire stone walls with flame, turning them into molten rock. He has personal hand cannons, in the form of Force Rings that let him kill a person/ vampire by pointing his fist at him. He's deadly. The narration (I'm paraphrasing) states that its like seeing something for the first time, and realising that you're not on the top of the food chain.

              Which is kinda what I think people should view the Solar Exalted as. Powerful. So powerful, that you realise that, in this universe, you're a small fry. That there are bigger, mightier beings, and one is standing right before you.

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              • Shifting topics.

                Lethe. Is the cycle of reincarnation a line of souls that gets cleansed and the soul longest in line gets reincarnated into the next available baby? Or is it more of a Hinduism karma thing where depending on how you lived depends on where or in whom you reincarnate into? A murderer is born a pauper; but a hero is born into a Dynastic household type thing?

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                • Originally posted by Uknown DarkLord View Post
                  Shifting topics.

                  Lethe. Is the cycle of reincarnation a line of souls that gets cleansed and the soul longest in line gets reincarnated into the next available baby? Or is it more of a Hinduism karma thing where depending on how you lived depends on where or in whom you reincarnate into? A murderer is born a pauper; but a hero is born into a Dynastic household type thing?
                  Not sure. Fairly sure its random.

                  The only thing I've heard is that Sidereals can earmark a soul to be sent into a destiny meant to Exalt as a Dragonblooded.

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                  • So in looking, I'm fairly certain it is an Immaculate belief. Kinda. "The Immaculate Order teaches its adherents that the cycle of reincarnation leads in an upward spiral to oneness with the Five Elemental Dragons, from animals through mortals through Dragon-Blooded"

                    But that's just propaganda that, right?

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                    • Originally posted by Uknown DarkLord View Post
                      So in looking, I'm fairly certain it is an Immaculate belief. Kinda. "The Immaculate Order teaches its adherents that the cycle of reincarnation leads in an upward spiral to oneness with the Five Elemental Dragons, from animals through mortals through Dragon-Blooded"

                      But that's just propaganda that, right?
                      Complete bullshit they sell to their adherents to ensure obedience

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                      • Another question (sorry to interrupt yours Uknown DarkLord I just don't know the answer to your question), how do you describe any character breaking Battle groups by 1-2 level of Size, especially when they start at size 5 (so thousands of fighters), when the character only uses excellencies (the classical good roll on Join Battle follow by a decisive on the battle group). I'm having problems describing when they use no charms other than excellencies (or only few charms) and give it sense in context : Either they did something totally crazy to make surrender or flee these 800 people in few seconds, but then it doesn't look like it makes sense in the context of "I'm only doing human possible stuff with my excellencies", or it's plain surnatural and then I'm having trouble handling it, like a player describing how he made a huge shockwave knocking all the army down, and I like it and sometimes allow it, but ... well he doesn't have a Charm that come any close to that.

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                        • Originally posted by Uknown DarkLord View Post
                          So in looking, I'm fairly certain it is an Immaculate belief. Kinda. "The Immaculate Order teaches its adherents that the cycle of reincarnation leads in an upward spiral to oneness with the Five Elemental Dragons, from animals through mortals through Dragon-Blooded"

                          But that's just propaganda that, right?
                          Unknown. Probably mostly propaganda, but not guaranteed to be entirely propaganda.

                          It's not something we plan to detail in the game line unless a specific formulation turns out to lead to interesting gameable outcomes. Otherwise we'd rather leave it in the hands of Storytellers and players when needed for a specific story, or (most likely) just remaining unknown at your table because it's not relevant to what's going on in your actual play.


                          Developer for Exalted.

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                          • Originally posted by Uknown DarkLord View Post
                            Shifting topics.

                            Lethe. Is the cycle of reincarnation a line of souls that gets cleansed and the soul longest in line gets reincarnated into the next available baby? Or is it more of a Hinduism karma thing where depending on how you lived depends on where or in whom you reincarnate into? A murderer is born a pauper; but a hero is born into a Dynastic household type thing?

                            The former is closer to how it works, though I'm not sure I'd describe it as quite so much of a queue as just a pool of random souls that the next people to be born get drawn from. The Immaculate view is explicitly false - reincarnation is not merit-based in Exalted. Now, there was something of an exception in the 1st Age - the Deliberative did pass a law saying that anyone who died as a result of Solar actions would get a better reincarnation the next time (presumably, there was an exception in there for people intentionally killed by Solars, for things like executions and whatnot).

                            Now, that's all based on 2e sources. I don't know of anything that 3e has said yet on the topic. That said, I'd guess that some degree of soul-manipulation via reincarnation is still possible - it's a pretty major part of Autochthonian culture, and I don't see that getting dumped. And if the Autochthonians can do it, I don't see why it can't be done in Creation. But I don't think it's a particularly regular thing. And I doubt the line will bother bringing back the bit about the 1st Age law - it's extremely Dreams of the First Age in flavor, which I believe the line is going away from in a big way.

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                            • Originally posted by Chausse View Post
                              Another question (sorry to interrupt yours Uknown DarkLord I just don't know the answer to your question), how do you describe any character breaking Battle groups by 1-2 level of Size, especially when they start at size 5 (so thousands of fighters), when the character only uses excellencies (the classical good roll on Join Battle follow by a decisive on the battle group). I'm having problems describing when they use no charms other than excellencies (or only few charms) and give it sense in context : Either they did something totally crazy to make surrender or flee these 800 people in few seconds, but then it doesn't look like it makes sense in the context of "I'm only doing human possible stuff with my excellencies", or it's plain surnatural and then I'm having trouble handling it, like a player describing how he made a huge shockwave knocking all the army down, and I like it and sometimes allow it, but ... well he doesn't have a Charm that come any close to that.
                              I'd go for doing something crazy, after all even an excellency is magic, it just has to be a supernatural show of skill. For instance maybe there was a golden champion protected by elite squadron, and the character just swooped in, killed the champion and came back out completely unharmed. Or Maybe he stopped an elephant's charge by holding his sword in front of him with only one hand and having the elephant impale itself on it. Or maybe he made a point of having his fallen enemies form a pile so that all the enemy soldiers can see him atop an ever rising pile of corpses, effortlessly killing any who approaches.

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                              • Originally posted by Chausse View Post
                                how do you describe any character breaking Battle groups by 1-2 level of Size, especially when they start at size 5 (so thousands of fighters), when the character only uses excellencies (the classical good roll on Join Battle follow by a decisive on the battle group).
                                Bear in mind that Magnitude losses represent as much, if not more, desertions and retreating, rather than actual casualties. So, a Solar melee master going in against a Size 5 battlegroup and reducing its Size by 1 in a turn might be described as follows: "As you advance on the horde, blade gleaming in the light of your anima, a few brave souls rush to meet you. You cut them down in an instant, blood spraying those behind them artfully. A few of these also come close, but most of their strikes are effortlessly parried, and you continue to cut down all who come before you like wheat under a farmer's scythe. As the front line halts, its soldiers unwilling to come closer, the pressure of the halted advance moves back through the crowd of soldiers like a wave. You can see many in the lines behind the front with panic on their faces, only the pressure of their comrades preventing them from running outright, while further towards the back of the force, stragglers begin to break away and flee."

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