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  • Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
    These are good ideas, though they don't work for normal binding, only task binding. And if the task is, say, "bodyguard my friend", then the solution would be to kill the friend, but the point is I want to deal with it without killing.
    Well service binding (serve as guard for a year and a day or some such time) are probably the harder dealings to figure out. Maybe you can get out of it with a complete lockdown or something that might trigger an invalidation situation. Other than that you'd be looking for some means of creating a banishment ritual or spell.

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    • Trickery often works. Convince the summoner to fire his demon; a more challenging option might be to convince the demon that she needs to go away (perhaps to the Demon City?) for the good of her summoner (mayhaps explain the Realm’s license system to her and overplay how much trouble he’ll be in for non-compliance).

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      • Can you actually fire your own demons?


        I run... Lunars: The Apocalypse! Exalted 3rd edition. Fimbulwinter is upon the world as an Ice Age begins, and only six young Lunar heroes have a chance of saving humanity.

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        • Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
          Connected to this; is there any way in 3rd ed to either send a demon back to Hell or free it from its binding other than killing it?
          In the fairly limited scope of what we've got so far, I'd say that workings are the most natural place to go for it. Just as a general pursuit for sorcerous things not really encompassed in spells, and something to run interference on an already cast spell. It's not a described clause in the demon summoning spells.

          Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz
          if the task is, say, "bodyguard my friend", then the solution would be to kill the friend, but the point is I want to deal with it without killing.


          Hmm, that raises the question to me of whether or not demonic binding is based on something objective and metaphysical, or in the fallible perceptions of the demon. If the demon thinks with reasonably strong evidence that their charge is dead, does that qualify?

          I'm thinking that making task binding something that has a kind of universal awareness might have some problem implications, although personally I'd be more interested in how it's just a bit more narrow and takes some options for dealing with things off the table.

          I've also got the image now of the friend being stabbed and dropped in the ocean, and the demon needs to go jump in and swim after (despite not actually being a very good swimmer) to try and save the person or at least confirm a body, because the sorcery is still firm enough that it doesn't allow them to get off on suppositions, even if they have fairly strong circumstantial evidence.

          So a demon perceives a dead body that passes muster to their senses, then that's enough, but even under the most extreme circumstances where one could reasonably logically conclude that the person is deceased, even the slightest room for doubt means they remain bound to try and fulfil their Principle or find confirmation that it's been rendered invalid.

          I'm suddenly imagining Creation being home to a fairly small number of demons who are stuck in a kind of limbo state of being attached to tasks that they're not really sure are no longer valid and trapped eternally (and discretely) wandering in search of either their charge or a firm confirmation that the task is no longer functional. In the case of protecting a living human, the spell won't even let them off with the passage of time, as they can't be sure that the person wasn't granted some manner of longevity or immortality.


          I have approximate knowledge of many things.
          Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
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          • No doubt; that reminds me of a demon I’ve been using in games of mine. He’s a First Circle who was called across the Endless Desert to keep an enchanted amulet safe; unfortunately, the sorcerer who summoned him died. As such, the demon has taken it upon himself to safeguard the amulet by keeping it on his person at all times, while he goes out and makes a living for himself as a merchant.

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            • Hah, I like that.

              It certainly seems thematically appropriate to me for there to be demons stuck to silly tasks that haven't quite been invalidated. I can definitely see interesting plot with that.


              I run... Lunars: The Apocalypse! Exalted 3rd edition. Fimbulwinter is upon the world as an Ice Age begins, and only six young Lunar heroes have a chance of saving humanity.

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              • What are possibilities for Exalted and Spirits to identify other Exalted and Spirits?
                Lorewise and rules of possible - thx in advance!

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                • About the demon binding, I would say (admittedly there is no rule evidence) that the sorcerer that bound the demon can just define 'You fulfilled or task' or something among the lines from 'you are relieved from your duty' and the demon would go home

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                  • Originally posted by Seisho View Post
                    What are possibilities for Exalted and Spirits to identify other Exalted and Spirits?
                    Well, for gods, demons, and elementals in particular, there’s Measure the Wind. If someone in their presence meets specific conditions they can discern their true nature.

                    Even if that doesn’t happen, don’t forget that gods exist as part of a bureaucracy. If a god wants to know what someone is, and is willing to trade favors and do paperwork, he can probably get his hands on whatever files exist for them in Heaven.

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                    • Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                      Can you actually fire your own demons?
                      I vastly prefer if you can't.


                      Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

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                      • I’d say that for the year-and-a-day binding, the demon can be ordered to return to the Demon City, but not for task-binding.

                        (Allowing, of course, for the possibility of the demon deciding that sticking around is more important than what its summoner strictly ordered, like if he knows someone is going to try and assassinate the summoner tonight, but the summoner refuses to believe him.)

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                        • I noticed some attack charms and antagonists powers have a variation of the phrase "This attack can only be parried or dodged using magical means".

                          My main question is, What is defined as a magical mean?

                          Are charms good enough since most would consider them magic? If so, would that include excellencies as they are also charms? Would it need to be sorcerous spells/working such as Virtuous guardian flame? Would a simple stunt be enough?

                          Or maybe it would be a simple DM ruling?

                          Edit: corrected a typo
                          Last edited by Orukan; 08-31-2019, 02:53 PM.

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                          • Originally posted by Orukan View Post
                            My main question is, What is defined as a magical mean?

                            Are charms good enough since most would consider them magic? If so, would that include excellencies as they are also charms? Would it need to be sorcerous spells/working such as Virtuous guardian flame?
                            Yes, all of these would be sufficient.

                            Originally posted by Orukan
                            Would a simple stunt be enough?
                            In general, no. Stunts aren't "magic" in the setting, they're just the general level of awesomeness that everyone, hypothetically, can pull off. But that's not enough to counter something that specifically requires magic to block.

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                            • Charms, evocations, spells; those are all magic.

                              You'll also note that when a stunt is sufficient, they say a stunt.


                              I run... Lunars: The Apocalypse! Exalted 3rd edition. Fimbulwinter is upon the world as an Ice Age begins, and only six young Lunar heroes have a chance of saving humanity.

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                              • Would it be reasonable for a sorcerer to develop a series of summoning spells, equivalent to the Demon of the (whichever) Circle or Summon Elemental, that apply to creatures of the Wyld? Given that there are Wyld-themed shaping rituals in the corebook, it seems kind of plausible to have more Wyld-themed sorcery tricks.

                                So for example, a Terrestrial Circle spell might call up a buck-ogre or a silverwight, and a Celestial spell could get you a Fair Folk cataphract or something. (I imagine a Solar spell could get you some kind of scary-ass Wyld behemoth.) The sorcerer's roll against the creature's Resolve would presumably represent working out some kind of pact and framing it appropriately to keep your minion on-task.

                                That said, I don't know what precise limits you'd set on each spell. The Fair Folk cataphract in the corebook is only Essence 2, but I'd say they're definitely too powerful for a first-circle spell to summon. Of course, the issue here is that unlike elementals and demons, the Wyld critters in the books weren't meant as sorcerer tools when they were written, so they aren't balanced for that purpose. You'd probably need to work with the ST to put together a custom list of appropriate creatures for each circle.

                                Of course, a sorcerer walking into town somewhere with a raksha cataphract at his side is probably not going to get a friendly welcome, but that's a separate issue entirely...

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