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  • Exalted 2.5 and 3E All Encompassing Sorcerer's Sight allows you to see Essence Patterns. I thought that meant seeing the type of essence an exalt has as easily as seeing what aspect a demesne is.

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    • Originally posted by Uknown DarkLord View Post
      Exalted 2.5 and 3E All Encompassing Sorcerer's Sight allows you to see Essence Patterns. I thought that meant seeing the type of essence an exalt has as easily as seeing what aspect a demesne is.

      That's not the case for the 3e version of All-Encompassing Sorcerer's Sight, at least. It's pretty specific: "This Charm does not reveal the working of the Charms of the Exalted." I think that the 2e version was perceived as making it a bit too easy to cast Detect Exalted, basically, so they backed off from that in 3e.

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      • Originally posted by Uknown DarkLord View Post
        Question, since gods are not shaped by belief does this mean that the Syndics no longer need that harpist demon that was summoned up in prior editions to play music to remind them of their individual identities?
        What do these things have to do with each other?

        (As far as I know, the harpist’s presence didn’t have anything to do with gods being vulnerable to the Consensus; it was just another example of Pulp Weirdness resulting from three gods choosing to sorcerously fuse themselves into one trinity-entity.)

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        • Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
          What do these things have to do with each other?

          (As far as I know, the harpist’s presence didn’t have anything to do with gods being vulnerable to the Consensus; it was just another example of Pulp Weirdness resulting from three gods choosing to sorcerously fuse themselves into one trinity-entity.)
          Oh, that's my mistake then. I thought they were in danger of fusing because of the beliefs of the city.

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          • Originally posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post


            That's not the case for the 3e version of All-Encompassing Sorcerer's Sight, at least. It's pretty specific: "This Charm does not reveal the working of the Charms of the Exalted." I think that the 2e version was perceived as making it a bit too easy to cast Detect Exalted, basically, so they backed off from that in 3e.
            So if you have All Encompassing Sorcerer's Sight up, you don't see that a particular being has essence? If they're not using charms they appear the same as a regular human?

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            • Originally posted by Uknown DarkLord View Post
              So if you have All Encompassing Sorcerer's Sight up, you don't see that a particular being has essence? If they're not using charms they appear the same as a regular human?
              An Exalt who isn’t using Charms is a regular human.

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              • Incidentally, Sense the Hidden Ember (in DB Awareness) does let you detect what kind of Exalt someone was.
                Specifically, when you are close to a location where someone flared their anima to iconic, you can roll, and if you get 5+ successes and it's a kind of Exalt you've seen before, you can sense what kind of Exalt it is.

                But that's not colour-based. I guess it'd be more like a feeling.


                I run... Lunars: The Apocalypse! Exalted 3rd edition. Fimbulwinter is upon the world as an Ice Age begins, and only six young Lunar heroes have a chance of saving humanity.

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                • How does sneaking up and stabbing people in their sleep work?
                  Do you just count as having concealment (because, well, they're asleep), or do they have a penalty to their Awareness roll for being asleep?


                  I run... Lunars: The Apocalypse! Exalted 3rd edition. Fimbulwinter is upon the world as an Ice Age begins, and only six young Lunar heroes have a chance of saving humanity.

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                  • Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                    How does sneaking up and stabbing people in their sleep work?
                    It appears to be one of those things the ST should probably adjudicate, absent Charms like Surprise Anticipation Method.

                    Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                    Do you just count as having concealment (because, well, they're asleep), or do they have a penalty to their Awareness roll for being asleep?
                    I’d advise not penalizing the roll, however “realistic” the alternative would be, because even if the would-be ambusher completely blows his roll, he’s starting combat with a pile of advantages (clothed/armored, alert, weapon in hand, against a prone weaponless naked opponent tangled up in a bedsheet and having to suddenly process being attacked).

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                    • Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                      How does sneaking up and stabbing people in their sleep work?
                      Do you just count as having concealment (because, well, they're asleep), or do they have a penalty to their Awareness roll for being asleep?
                      Hold At Bay might be good hear—or just straight ambush.


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                      • Absent relevant Charms:

                        Attacker rolls to establish Stealth, as normal.
                        Defender rolls Awareness to overcome Stealth, with a penalty for being asleep (I'd use -3 on a par with Blindness as a baseline).

                        If the Attacker wins, they have established Stealth as per page 203 and may make an unexpected attack. If the Defender wins, they wake up (and you can ignore what I've written below and proceed to normal combat with two awake participants).

                        Attacker and Defender roll Join Battle. I probably would not penalize the sleeping character if it's a PC (otherwise -3 sounds fair again).

                        If the Attacker wins Join Battle after establishing Stealth, their first attack is an Ambush (which can be converted into Hold At Bay).
                        If Defender wins, then the Attacker's first attack is a Surprise Attack (Defender should probably Rise From Prone on their turn but they get to start with a weapon readied as normal).

                        ****

                        I'd probably not use the combat rules, and just let PCs gank NPCs in their sleep.

                        If you get Surprise Attacked, you're going to be on your feet, weapon in hand (who doesn't sleep with a weapon by the bed?) You might survive. Maybe.

                        If you get Ambushed, you're waking up after taking a hit on Defence 0. Your turn is rolling to Rise From Prone (if you can succeed with a -3, you might want to Flurry a Draw/Ready, but that's going to leave you at -2 Defence next turn). If you succeed you're now on your feet, unarmed (or at -2 Defence) as your Attacker whoops you again. If you fail, you're Prone and getting whooped again. Either way you're probably going to die.
                        Last edited by JohnDoe244; 09-07-2019, 09:40 AM.


                        Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

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                        • I was hoping there were actual rules somewhere that I'd just failed to find, but evidently not. Thanks for your suggestions.


                          Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
                          I’d advise not penalizing the roll, however “realistic” the alternative would be, because even if the would-be ambusher completely blows his roll, he’s starting combat with a pile of advantages (clothed/armored, alert, weapon in hand, against a prone weaponless naked opponent tangled up in a bedsheet and having to suddenly process being attacked).
                          This is a very good point, but if there's no penalties what is Surprise Anticipation Method doing differently?

                          Originally posted by Epee102
                          Hold At Bay might be good hear—or just straight ambush.
                          Eh, that seems a bit over-powerful, without a roll.

                          Originally posted by JohnDoe244
                          I'd probably not use the combat rules, and just let PCs gank NPCs in their sleep.
                          In this case, it's the other way round. A polar bear has woken up to find a PC sleeping next to him, a PC he escaped from last session because the Lunar kept punching him in the face. So he's going to try clawing his face off (two other PCs are a range band away asleep as well).

                          As to ganking NPCs, I think it probably depends on the NPC. For a regular merchant or farmer I'd probably just have them make a difficulty 1 stealth roll to sneak up and stab them without them waking and screaming. For a Dragonblood satrap who's the main antagonist of the game I'd probably have a lot more rolls.

                          John's suggestion of -3 seems realistic, but in this case as the PC and bear are both waking up, I probably won't give him the penalty.


                          I run... Lunars: The Apocalypse! Exalted 3rd edition. Fimbulwinter is upon the world as an Ice Age begins, and only six young Lunar heroes have a chance of saving humanity.

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                          • Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                            I was hoping there were actual rules somewhere that I'd just failed to find, but evidently not. Thanks for your suggestions.



                            This is a very good point, but if there's no penalties what is Surprise Anticipation Method doing differently?
                            Surprise Anticipation Method says that one of its effects is to allow the use of Awareness Charms while sleeping or unconscious. So without it I guess you're not getting Charms on your roll, so no double 9s and rerolled 1s and whatnot (an especially mean reading of this might disable the Awareness Excellency altogether while asleep).

                            The only dev ruling I found on ambushing sleeping characters is this. It says a character who is still asleep by the time they roll JB automatically fails the roll. I assume this means they get 0 successes and start at 3 ini.

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                            • Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
                              An Exalt who isn’t using Charms is a regular human.
                              Even if their essence rating is above 1? All encompassing sorcerer's sight wouldn't notice that?

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                              • Originally posted by Epitome View Post
                                Surprise Anticipation Method says that one of its effects is to allow the use of Awareness Charms while sleeping or unconscious. So without it I guess you're not getting Charms on your roll, so no double 9s and rerolled 1s and whatnot (an especially mean reading of this might disable the Awareness Excellency altogether while asleep).

                                The only dev ruling I found on ambushing sleeping characters is this. It says a character who is still asleep by the time they roll JB automatically fails the roll. I assume this means they get 0 successes and start at 3 ini.
                                I forgot that one.
                                I think that's a massive penalty, so in that case maybe Alucard is right and I should just let him roll Per+Awareness vs the bear's stealth to wake up.

                                Originally posted by Uknown DarkLord
                                Even if their essence rating is above 1? All encompassing sorcerer's sight wouldn't notice that?
                                3rd ed All-Encompassing Sorcerer's Sight doesn't notice Exalts at all, even if they're in the middle of spending 20 motes.

                                It lets you "perceive immaterial spirits, but moreover, she can see the workings of spirit energies around her. If a character is using a shaping action or Evocation, the Solar may make an Intelligence+ Occult roll at a difficulty of the effect’s Essence minimum to determine how the power works. This Charm may also be used to identify the presence of ongoing sorcerous
                                effects such as mystical barriers and levitating platforms, revealing not only the presence of magic, but how it functions. This power also allows the Exalt to see places where Creation is thin... This Charm does not reveal the working of the Charms of the Exalted."

                                It lets you notice magical effects and see spirits even when they're immaterial. It doesn't do anything like let you look at someone and go "Oh, that's a Solar/Dragonblood/Elemental/Ghost/Raksha."

                                Though obviously if they've got an evocation active you're going to suspect they're probably an Exalt. But you won't be sure.


                                I run... Lunars: The Apocalypse! Exalted 3rd edition. Fimbulwinter is upon the world as an Ice Age begins, and only six young Lunar heroes have a chance of saving humanity.

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