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  • Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
    Creating specific land restarts you at phase 1:

    "The Lawgiver may not begin to create very specific land until phase four; she must first generate three phases of non-specific land in order to generate specific land, at which point she starts completely over, losing all generated land, creatures, and demesnes, generating (Essence x5) square miles in the first phase"
    Ah, okay. So the difficulty resets to 5 at that point as well?

    This seems sort of harsh, actually. The Solar can't specify the kinds of sentient creatures living in the new area until the sixth phase (meaning the ninth phase in total apparently). I realize that there are a lot of upgrades to make WST a lot cheaper and more usable (Demiurgic Suspiration, Savant of Nine Glories, and Seal of Infinite Wisdom could actually keep you mote-positive later on in the process), but that's a lot of effort just to make some pineys to chat with.

    Also, how does this interact with Wyld-Forging Focus? Do you jump to phase two again as soon as you start with specific land creation, like this:

    First WST use: Phase two of nonspecific land
    Second WST use: Phase three of nonspecific land
    Third WST use: Phase two of specific land
    Fourth WST use: Phase three of specific land
    Fifth WST use: Phase four of specific land
    etc.

    I assume, furthermore, that when WFF starts you on phase two, you still have whatever you would have created on phase one to use as a basis for the next step? ("Okay, it's phase two of specific land. In phase one I made a lake, so now I'll create my new yacht!") I would rather hope so, since WFF's effect doesn't appear to be optional.

    I've been wondering if it wouldn't have been better for WST to work more like Master Plan Meditation, where you have a list of example creations and how many successes you'd need to spend on each of them. (At least it might get us more examples within the given wordcount.) I guess that would probably make it too easy for WST to be better at making things than the actual Craft ability, though.

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    • When they say 'diagnose a patient'... Does it mean you need to be physically present there? Like, right next to the patient?

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      • Originally posted by Accelerator View Post
        When they say 'diagnose a patient'... Does it mean you need to be physically present there? Like, right next to the patient?
        How else are you seeing that happening?

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        • Originally posted by Accelerator View Post
          When they say 'diagnose a patient'... Does it mean you need to be physically present there? Like, right next to the patient?

          If you have appropriate magic that would allow you to make Perception rolls at a distance, such as the control effect of Infallible Messenger or some such, the Storyteller could allow you to do so from a distance. But in general, you need to be capable of looking, prodding, etc; doing it at a distance will probably carry penalties, though Solars get a Charm to auto-succeed at it anyway.

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          • Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post

            How else are you seeing that happening?
            I've been thinking on how it's a horrible idea to use the internet for diagnosis. And then I thought of the askdoc part of reddit.

            How about a charm that let's you talk to a patient or someone else, either via mail or via telephone. As long as the person is diligent and observant, listing down lifestyle, symptoms, and other miscellaneous stuff, the solar can roll perfectly normal as if he was right there with a mri machine and a blood test.

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            • Originally posted by Alistair View Post


              If you have appropriate magic that would allow you to make Perception rolls at a distance, such as the control effect of Infallible Messenger or some such, the Storyteller could allow you to do so from a distance. But in general, you need to be capable of looking, prodding, etc; doing it at a distance will probably carry penalties, though Solars get a Charm to auto-succeed at it anyway.
              If you're talking about Flawless Diagnosis Technique, it only guarantees you will not misdiagnose, it doesn't guarantee you will be able to i.e. identify an illness if you've never heard of it.
              Last edited by Epitome; 10-13-2019, 04:04 PM.

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              • Originally posted by Epitome View Post
                If you're talking about Flawless Diagnosis Technique, it only guarantees you will not misdiagnose, it doesn't guarantee you will be able to i.e. identify an illness if you've never heard of it.

                Right; either way it will help, but the ST could impose penalties to ranged diagnosis, is my point

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                • Originally posted by Accelerator View Post

                  I've been thinking on how it's a horrible idea to use the internet for diagnosis. And then I thought of the askdoc part of reddit.

                  How about a charm that let's you talk to a patient or someone else, either via mail or via telephone. As long as the person is diligent and observant, listing down lifestyle, symptoms, and other miscellaneous stuff, the solar can roll perfectly normal as if he was right there with a mri machine and a blood test.
                  This sounds pretty much exactly like a Medicine equivalent of Truth-Rendering Attitude, from Miracles of the Solar Exalted -- an Investigation Charm that enables the Solar to listen to a witness statement and analyze the evidence as if she'd been there herself. I think that would be a perfectly reasonable Charm.

                  Being able to diagnose the patient as if you had the MRI machine and blood test, without actually having that equipment, might be a separate Charm though. (I guess Contagion-Curing Touch might cover the equipment issue. Technically, CCT allows you to treat disease without the right instruments, not diagnose it, but honestly if the Solar had both Flawless Diagnosis Technique and Contagion-Curing Touch I'd probably just let it work.)

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                  • Originally posted by Accelerator View Post

                    I've been thinking on how it's a horrible idea to use the internet for diagnosis. And then I thought of the askdoc part of reddit.

                    How about a charm that let's you talk to a patient or someone else, either via mail or via telephone. As long as the person is diligent and observant, listing down lifestyle, symptoms, and other miscellaneous stuff, the solar can roll perfectly normal as if he was right there with a mri machine and a blood test.
                    Well, I mean, a healer in Exalted, even a mortal one, doesn’t really need an MRI or a blood test machine anyway. They just touch their patient, look into their throat, eyes, asking how they feel, maybe testing a reaction like pressing a finger into their skin and noting the resulting colour change.

                    I think that it would be appropriate for a charm to allow a Solar to be able to diagnose a character through that kind of interaction without penalty. With the caveat that symptoms must be obvious enough to the patient that they could theoretically notice them to report them.

                    A Sidereal charm might be able to diagnose a disease or poison like that even if the person reporting them doesn’t feel the symptoms.

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                    • I don't think you need to be a Sidereal in order to diagnose something undetectable. And honestly it should be a base part of basic Charms for most Exalted to accomplish so; their basic Charms already accomplish way harder things, like disguises that cannot be seen through without magic or making a patient's wounds close in a single hour of treatment.

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                      • Originally posted by Alistair View Post
                        I don't think you need to be a Sidereal in order to diagnose something undetectable. And honestly it should be a base part of basic Charms for most Exalted to accomplish so; their basic Charms already accomplish way harder things, like disguises that cannot be seen through without magic or making a patient's wounds close in a single hour of treatment.
                        Detect something undetectable via only the testimony of a character who’s not present though? Like you get an email from a client saying “No problems, I feel great.” And you instantly know that they have pancreatic cancer, a tiny tumour of it that just formed a week ago? That’s not just epic application of skill, that’s basically nonsensical. A Sidereal though might grab hold of the person’s strand of fate through that message, and follow it along to see a tiny snarl in it that represents possible death.

                        Edit: and just to add to that, the investigation charm that lets you investigate a scene that you weren’t there for doesn’t let you apply any simple charms, or charms that would require you to actually handle the evidence in question to reveal it. So you can’t hear a description of a room and know that hidden on the under side of the chair at the back was a strap that held the murder weapon or something.
                        Last edited by DrLoveMonkey; 10-13-2019, 05:37 PM.

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                        • Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post

                          Detect something undetectable via only the testimony of a character who’s not present though? Like you get an email from a client saying “No problems, I feel great.” And you instantly know that they have pancreatic cancer, a tiny tumour of it that just formed a week ago? That’s not just epic application of skill, that’s basically nonsensical. A Sidereal though might grab hold of the person’s strand of fate through that message, and follow it along to see a tiny snarl in it that represents possible death.

                          You speak as if parrying a mountain range falling on your head or a curse that leaves you speechless, with nothing but a table leg, is not nonsensical. You wouldn't be detecting it from the testimony either way, you would be detecting it from some other magic that allows you to perceive things from afar, like previously mentioned. And that's something I can see in Sidereals, Solars, Lunars and about any Exalted invested in Medicine/Perception; Solar Charms are not just applications of epic skills.

                          Edit: Missed the quote, though I still consider analyzing someone via the internet flawlessly something within all Exalted's capabilities in one way or another.
                          Last edited by Alistair; 10-13-2019, 05:43 PM.

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                          • Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post

                            Detect something undetectable via only the testimony of a character who’s not present though? Like you get an email from a client saying “No problems, I feel great.” And you instantly know that they have pancreatic cancer, a tiny tumour of it that just formed a week ago? That’s not just epic application of skill, that’s basically nonsensical. A Sidereal though might grab hold of the person’s strand of fate through that message, and follow it along to see a tiny snarl in it that represents possible death.

                            Edit: and just to add to that, the investigation charm that lets you investigate a scene that you weren’t there for doesn’t let you apply any simple charms, or charms that would require you to actually handle the evidence in question to reveal it. So you can’t hear a description of a room and know that hidden on the under side of the chair at the back was a strap that held the murder weapon or something.
                            This is a fair point. A Solar detective with Ten Magistrate Eyes (which is probably the strongest Investigation Charm that's still usable at a distance via Truth-Rendering Attitude) could probably make some very impression deductive leaps from a description of the crime scene, but he would need the witness to have seen something useful. He might very well deduce something big from seemingly paltry evidence, though.

                            Similarly, a Solar doctor won't learn a damned thing from a patient who feels perfectly fine, but if the patient has some minor complaints, the Solar might well realize that these are early symptoms of some nasty disease and not just the common cold or something.

                            How often is there literally no evidence of a problem? A casual observer may not recognize the importance of what he's seeing or feeling, but that doesn't mean a Solar won't put the pieces together given a chance. (If there's no evidence at all, I'm not sure why anyone would be investigating in the first place.)

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                            • More often than not, it's not that there's no evidence at all, but that the evidence was concealed and or destroyed. It's why Case Scene actions are a thing, they let you find concealed items or evidence.

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                              • Originally posted by Alistair View Post


                                You speak as if parrying a mountain range falling on your head or a curse that leaves you speechless, with nothing but a table leg, is not nonsensical.
                                Yeah this is where a pretty fine distinction comes into place. Solars can often do things that are pretty impossible, but there usually is to be some kind of logical connection. Being able to form a bubble of safety for yourself with a swing of a table leg is totally impossible, but infused with essence it becomes strong enough and your arm becomes strong enough to block it. What’s not possible is a Solar using a presence charm to smile at the mountain and be so charming that the inanimate chunks of rock veer away rather than hurt that precious smile. The mechanism just doesn’t make sense unless that particular avalanche is actually an earth elemental or something.

                                It USUALLY doesn’t matter that much, but it’s really important to keep up so that Solars don’t just become people that can do anything they want in whatever way they want with no restrictions. They are the most powerful for sure, and if they need to accomplish something, then a particular Solar can. Like if you need to set fire to a grain store a Solar can just get fire by mundane means, but Solars can’t just casually light ablaze a sack of grain by force of will just because it’s impossible and they can do the impossible.

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