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  • Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
    Edit: I should also say that I do like Epitome’s idea of penalty reduction with more info, just not the diagnosis from no evidence.
    I actually agree you shouldn't be able to do it from absolutely nothing. My point was more that most times indirect evidence can be sufficient for a Solar physician. Creation's supernatural take on biology allows a lot more leeway when deciding whether you truly do not have enough information compared to the real world - an illness with no outwards symptoms in the real world might be detectable in Creation by looking for subtle signs that the patient's essence is out of balance, which might impact the patient's behavior subconsciously or change how events unfold around them.

    If an illness truly has no outwards symptoms then sure you shouldn't be able to diagnose it remotely (in fact diagnosing it in person should be almost impossible as well), but it's not a situation that should occur normally since people don't usually call a miracle doctor to diagnose someone who appears to be in perfect health.

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    • Originally posted by Alistair View Post
      the DB flight Charm is so restricted that it barely has any use in combat without instantly crashing yourself
      What about having a ranged weapon to continuously shoot at somebody who can't hit back to keep shoring your Initiative up to sustain flight, while putting them closer to crash for a Hearth mate to take advantage of?


      I have approximate knowledge of many things.
      Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
      https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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      • Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

        What about having a ranged weapon to continuously shoot at somebody who can't hit back to keep shoring your Initiative up to sustain flight, while putting them closer to crash for a Hearth mate to take advantage of?

        Except DB Archery and Thrown are notorious for being pretty damn bad (particularly at regaining initiative), shooting every turn means you're at Short which doesn't keep you safe from ranged attacks that will crash you faster than you can say Shuriken, being at Medium+ Range means you have to aim each turn and hope to recover 8i+ with every attack, and if you get crashed while at that distance, good luck surviving that falling damage. In general, a Charm that asks you to lose 4i every round is pretty damn unviable in most fights where you want it, and not worth using on fights that are easy enough for you to keep shoring up that much initiative to keep it active, for the Dragon-Blooded at least. Celestials have SOME ways to recover that much initiative with effort.

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        • Soaring Zephyr lets you gain 3 range bands in one turn, and contrarily to the other upwards movement option Incense Smoke Ladder it can be used next to enemies. I see it more as a means to reach high ground quickly and force enemies to chase after you. The first round doesn't cost ini so 3 range bands for 5m, 1wp is actually pretty good.

          Also for what it's worth Soaring Zephyr flight seems to be the most reliable way to trigger the Athletics capstone Falling Star Maneuver.

          Originally posted by Alistair View Post


          Except DB Archery and Thrown are notorious for being pretty damn bad (particularly at regaining initiative), shooting every turn means you're at Short which doesn't keep you safe from ranged attacks that will crash you faster than you can say Shuriken, being at Medium+ Range means you have to aim each turn and hope to recover 8i+ with every attack, and if you get crashed while at that distance, good luck surviving that falling damage. In general, a Charm that asks you to lose 4i every round is pretty damn unviable in most fights where you want it, and not worth using on fights that are easy enough for you to keep shoring up that much initiative to keep it active, for the Dragon-Blooded at least. Celestials have SOME ways to recover that much initiative with effort.
          When Soaring Zephyr Flight ends you take no falling damage.
          Last edited by Epitome; 10-14-2019, 10:51 PM.

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          • Originally posted by Epitome View Post
            Soaring Zephyr lets you gain 3 range bands in one turn, and contrarily to the other upwards movement option Incense Smoke Ladder it can be used next to enemies. I see it more as a means to reach high ground quickly and force enemies to chase after you. The first round doesn't cost ini so 3 range bands for 5m, 1wp is actually pretty good.

            Also for what it's worth Soaring Zephyr flight seems to be the most reliable way to trigger the Athletics capstone Falling Star Maneuver.



            When Soaring Zephyr Flight ends you take no falling damage.

            The jumping part is perfectly fine, I was referring to its flight capabilities. Falling Star is an E5 Charm, so it barely matters for most purposes. And yeah, I overlooked the falling damage bit, though it doesn't really make the Charm any better when it comes to flight.

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            • Originally posted by Alistair View Post
              >DB flight Charm has no restrictions
              >Flight is only good to chase airborne foes
              ...right, but the DB flight charm, at least it's pretty clear too me, isn't a charm to use primarily in combat. The Solar one is, it even requires you to lock onto a flying target to use it, but the DB one is just fly.

              Soaring Zephyr Flight lets you stealth into a military camp or fortress by soaring hundreds of feet into the air and descending on exactly where you need to infiltrate, or press yourself up against the shadowed ceiling in a room as you listen to conversations below, it lets you fly underneath your airship as it loses altitude and straight up Superman plane-catch it, it lets you retreat from ground-based dangers of absolutely every kind. Floating over pools filled with acid or deadly creatures, skipping over a deadly climb up an icy sheer cliff face, exploring underground caverns with nearly bottomless crevices and impossible to navigate geometry.

              As for Cirrus Skiff? It is very good, one of my favourite spells in the game, and if all you want to do is sit in the air raining down arrows it's definitely better than Soaring Zephyr Flight. You also need to learn Sorcery, cast the spell which takes 15 sorcerous motes and vanishes if you leave it for more than a scene, is controlled by (Wits + Occult), so if you're planning on using it in any kind of contest of speed that's the pool you use, and Cirrus Skiff can't be combined with Athletics charms because of that.

              Originally posted by Alistair View Post
              Except DB Archery and Thrown are notorious for being pretty damn bad (particularly at regaining initiative)
              What? Why? A strong athletic DB with a power bow has like 15-17 base damage. As long as you're facing things with no ranged attacks like Silverwights or Omen Hounds or something, or limited ranged abilities like Blood Apes, you should be able to just focus on offense and keep at least afloat if not gaining. It's not for every combat, but sometimes it's good, and like I said I don't think the primary purpose of it is combat.

              Originally posted by Alistair View Post
              If you get crashed while at that distance, good luck surviving that falling damage.
              That's not how the charm works. "This Charm ends if she’s crashed or incapacitated, leaves Air Aura, or ends her mote commitment, causing her to drift harmlessly to the ground." It's really easy to assume DB charms are very bad when you're not reading all the effects, just like it's really easy to assume Solar charms are insanely good when you don't read all the restrictions.

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              • I literally just said I overlooked that part. DBs with a powerbow means literally nothing regarding the state of their Archery tree, which helps them almost none when it comes to gaining initiative (or anything else, really), and their limited dice cap meaning they get less threshold successes to work with, And I wasn't even talking about Silverwights or anything, I was talking about a dude with a bow or two shooting at you until you either crash or fall moteless from all the expenses on raising Defense. A battlegroup of nomad archers, even. Its many, many drawbacks make it almost useless in combat, and outside combat a nice little expensive option you could have gotten from E1 through Sorcery except better but more time-consuming to cast (slightly). Including for infiltration or other purposes. Being used along with Athletics Charms matters little; the DB Occult Excellency comes with a dice trick that's enough to make it work.

                (And as a note: Solar Charms are poorly designed, they're not a good example of what they SHOULD look like for the most part. By the time Eagle Wing becomes a thing, it should just grant flight and be done with it, particularly given the progression up to that point).

                Edit: Oh! I also overlooked the part that requires you to stay in Air Aura, meaning there's barely any Archery Charms you can use while in it anyway! (Or any Thrown Charms that will actually help you, for that matter).
                Last edited by Alistair; 10-14-2019, 11:21 PM.

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                • A question on impurity hammering blow. Do you think it can be fluffed to turn quartz into diamonds, and amethyst into sapphires?

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                  • I never know if the dramatic amount of swing range that comes from people's reported experiences of playing Exalted should be taken as something to take heart in our be wary of. I've seen people make extremely elaborate arguments that battle groups are both severely overpowered or basically toothless, so I'm not really sure how to assess them.

                    I will say that I find arguments to the effect of citing the game's notoriety a bit suspect. Notorious to whom, exactly?


                    I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                    Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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                    • People who have played DBs, mainly. Or who have a head for the mechanics. I don't think there's much argument about DB Archery and Thrown being bad at gaining initiative when basically all they have in the way of withering enhancers are "Subtract a bit of soak after aiming" or "spend several turns doing nothing before making a multiattack that only nets you a bit of initiative." As for BGs, they can be either or; it depends on whether a Celestial commander (or even a DB who's very invested) is commanding them or not, and who they're up against.

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                      • I've used DB Thrown in a fight or two. It seemed to do neither terrible or amazing. The charms aren't very powerful, but then DB charms generally aren't very powerful.


                        I run... Lunars: The Apocalypse! Exalted 3rd edition. Fimbulwinter is upon the world as an Ice Age begins, and only six young Lunar heroes have a chance of saving humanity.

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                        • Have the Counterattack rules been clarified yet?

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                          • Originally posted by Aranfan View Post
                            Have the Counterattack rules been clarified yet?

                            In what sense?

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                            • Originally posted by Alistair View Post
                              "Subtract a bit of soak after aiming"
                              Or at Essence 3 just use it without aiming to add 3 damage for 4m. Anyway, rather than clog up this thread, I made a post in the Arena thread if anyone wants to see how Soaring Zephyr Flight can actually be used in combat.

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                              • Originally posted by Aranfan View Post
                                Have the Counterattack rules been clarified yet?
                                http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...96#post1069596

                                Is that what you're looking for?

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