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  • Originally posted by Elfive View Post
    I think you can probably do a lot better than just copying real tech. Who needs a steam engine when you can fuel your vehicles with the laughter of children?
    No, you see. You can make steam engines from fire and water. That means elementals. Sorcerers can bind elementals within the steam engine, and then later on, thaumaturges can propiate the elementals to stay inside and continue working via prayer or incense strips. Its basically a car powered by the prayers and duct tape of the people using it.

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    • This might be more of a 2.5 question. I'm not really sure if the rules about ghosts have changed (or will change) in 3rd edition.

      Does every human who dies generally have the choice between entering Lethe and landing in the Underworld as a ghost?

      I've been reading Masters of Jade. It's mentioned that Guildsmen really don't want to die without a lot of grave goods, because the many people whose lives have been ruined by the Guild will be waiting for them in the Underworld. And especially rich Guildsmen even have their slaves killed as part of their grave goods, dooming those poor folks to a potential eternity in chains.

      But can't people who are in for a bad time in the Underworld just choose to enter Lethe immediately instead? Or is there some reason some people can't?

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      • Originally posted by Jefepato View Post
        Does every human who dies generally have the choice between entering Lethe and landing in the Underworld as a ghost?

        I've been reading Masters of Jade. It's mentioned that Guildsmen really don't want to die without a lot of grave goods, because the many people whose lives have been ruined by the Guild will be waiting for them in the Underworld. And especially rich Guildsmen even have their slaves killed as part of their grave goods, dooming those poor folks to a potential eternity in chains.

        But can't people who are in for a bad time in the Underworld just choose to enter Lethe immediately instead? Or is there some reason some people can't?
        Caveat: I'm not referencing books here, but rather writing from memory and the general feel of ghosts in Exalted, so there is likely some headcanon and ideas external to the game bleeding in.

        Entering Lethe requires you to be, in some sense, at peace or detached. You need to be willing to stare into nothing, and be content with that. Ambition, avarice, and materialism aren't very conductive to that mindset. Furthermore, even if it was a simple choice, you wouldn't be making it rationally, but as a dying man with a lot to lose.
        Sure, attachment means you have chains and knives and ledgers of hate waiting for you in the hereafter, but it also means that you get to keep your stuff.

        You have so much stuff, and all you need to evade responsibility for your actions is more.

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        • Originally posted by Jefepato View Post
          Does every human who dies generally have the choice between entering Lethe and landing in the Underworld as a ghost?

          But can't people who are in for a bad time in the Underworld just choose to enter Lethe immediately instead? Or is there some reason some people can't?
          Originally posted by The MG View Post
          Caveat: I'm not referencing books here, but rather writing from memory and the general feel of ghosts in Exalted, so there is likely some headcanon and ideas external to the game bleeding in.

          Entering Lethe requires you to be, in some sense, at peace or detached. You need to be willing to stare into nothing, and be content with that. Ambition, avarice, and materialism aren't very conductive to that mindset. Furthermore, even if it was a simple choice, you wouldn't be making it rationally, but as a dying man with a lot to lose.
          Indeed, it is not exactly a matter of choice. Ghosts are souls held back from entering the Lethe by the Passions and Fetters that form when they die. So it is a matter of whether a soul is willing and able to let go of their "unfinished business" and attachments to people, objects, and places in the living world.

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          • Originally posted by Accelerator View Post
            No, you see. You can make steam engines from fire and water. That means elementals. Sorcerers can bind elementals within the steam engine, and then later on, thaumaturges can propiate the elementals to stay inside and continue working via prayer or incense strips. Its basically a car powered by the prayers and duct tape of the people using it.
            Sounds like an artifact. 2E, repair a Factory Cathedral and you can probably find blueprints for your magic car and run them off an automated assembly line.

            3E is a Bronze Age game. Advancing technology means inventing barley beer, steel and democracy.


            Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

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            • Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
              Sounds like an artifact. 2E, repair a Factory Cathedral and you can probably find blueprints for your magic car and run them off an automated assembly line.

              3E is a Bronze Age game. Advancing technology means inventing barley beer, steel and democracy.
              *thinks*

              You know, in the bronze age, they had trains? Rudimentary ones, but still, trains?

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              • Originally posted by Accelerator View Post
                *thinks*

                You know, in the bronze age, they had trains? Rudimentary ones, but still, trains?
                Yes, if you want to introduce a Diolkos type rail system to your city-state that would be a brilliant, in theme, advancement of technology.

                On the Artifact scale, you could even go right ahead with your idea of having Elementals pull and push things along the rails -- perhaps even by driving pistons inside an engine. But you're the one undertaking a Superior Project for each engine, and you're the one Summoning new Elementals each month... and you're the miracle worker the locals fear, mistrust and report to the Wyld Hunt. There are no armies of thaumaturges in 3E, and the Elementals you create dissipate.


                Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

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                • Rather than summon an elemental, you could seek out a natural one and employ it.

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                  • Originally posted by Elfive View Post
                    Rather than summon an elemental, you could seek out a natural one and employ it.
                    Bribe it with prayer or incense or sacrifices?

                    Keep your summoned ones from dissipating by making them develop a personality?

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                    • I mean, elementals can have much more grounded desires. You could probably find one willing to work for money.

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                      • Originally posted by Elfive View Post
                        I mean, elementals can have much more grounded desires. You could probably find one willing to work for money.
                        Or praise.

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                        • Originally posted by Accelerator View Post
                          Or praise.
                          That works for Ifrits, sure. Though it's probably cheaper to give an elemental money than it is to pay an entire village to give an Ifrit the gratitude it desires.

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                          • Exalted has kind of equivalents for most parts of Earth; the east is kind of America-themed, the North is Europe-themed, the Realm is China-esque, etc.

                            What about:
                            The North-Central Asian steppe (Tataria as they used to call it, as well as Kazakhstan, Mongolia, etc)
                            South-Central Asia (the mountainous Iran, Afghanistan, Azerbaijian, etc)
                            Southern Africa (if the answer is "Harborhead" then what about East Africa? West Africa? Central Africa? Or is Harborhead just covering all of sub-Saharan Africa?)
                            Australia

                            Not to say Exalted needs to have areas equivalent to everywhere in our world. Just wandering.


                            I play...
                            Kovan, actor, librarian, sorcerer, great bear, Lunar Elder from the First Age
                            Thutmose-Osiris, seventh son of a seventh son, descendant of the Supreme Deity Sukhmet, renegade demigod and bearer of the Ghoul-Banishing Bow. Also bright green.

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                            • Edit: oops wrong thread...
                              Last edited by MoroseMorgan; 11-17-2019, 02:06 PM.


                              Raksha are my fae-vorite.

                              Reincarnation of magnificentmomo.

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                              • Originally posted by Jefepato View Post
                                But can't people who are in for a bad time in the Underworld just choose to enter Lethe immediately instead? Or is there some reason some people can't?
                                Well, it's more dramatic, for one thing.

                                I think one can depict some narratives where going to Lethe takes the form of making a conscious choice to do so, but there ought to be a lot of cases in which underlying personality traits and deeper impulses are the basis for what holds them.

                                So you get Guild members who are sure they'll leave ghosts to face the mercy of their victims, and probably a few object examples to confirm the fear. They can't "don't think about elephants" their way out of it.

                                Probably some cases in which they can try to arrange funerals that will move their souls on, but the ethos provided for the Guild is often of people who won't want to.


                                I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                                Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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