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[JohnDoe244]

Is there any fan-made content for 3e that stands out to you? Favorite homebrews, etc?

My understanding is that most games developers have a strict policy on not reading fan work to avoid copyright issues.

I am pretty sure you won't get an answer to this one.

[Sasha]

My understanding is that most games developers have a strict policy on not reading fan work to avoid copyright issues.

I am pretty sure you won't get an answer to this one.

Huh, didn't know that. Thanks for the heads up.

[habitableexoplanet]

Crew on a merchant or fishing ship?

I would think if someone still has a normal life where they see their family when they go back to port and so on, and becoming a pirate means giving that up by becoming an outlaw, that would be a life-changing task.

If someone expects to work on a ship until they die, then maybe it's only serious.

If they believe they can join the pirate ship for a bit and then return to their normal life without being an outlaw, then it seems like the "farmer joints the militia" example, only serious.

And that’s from 2e, which had a weird mathematical primacy on its defences that even the mythology it often draws on doesn’t tend to have. In third edition the approach is a lot more that there aren’t perfect effects, but there are effects that require truly epic power to overcome. Like how adamant Skin Technique and Heavenly Guardian Defence don’t really function against attacks at 50+ initiative, but 50+ initiative is damn hard to get. An amazingly epic charm that determines if somebody is real or not works pretty much every time, but can still be fooled, at least sometimes, by amazingly epic disguises. An Essence 5 Solar simulacrum charm, for instance.

My personal opinion is that they should go even further and get rid of perfect defenses completely. This is just based on the experience as a player of putting a lot of resources into a powerful attack and having it negated was not fun, and I don’t think making them harder to use / rarer is the solution (that just means when you do come against an enemy that has access to them it’s more of a surprise.) I like the model of Heavenly Guardian Defense much better, where it’s very effective against a big attack but it still makes you spend resources proportional to what you’re blocking so Charms used against you aren’t totally negated.

Finally, a question:

What would be a typical negative consequence or complication from summoning Octavian? More than the other demons, he seems less weird / both useful and dangerous / useful for something particular and more just straightforwardly powerful.

[Sasha]

I would think if someone still has a normal life where they see their family when they go back to port and so on, and becoming a pirate means giving that up by becoming an outlaw, that would be a life-changing task.

If someone expects to work on a ship until they die, then maybe it's only serious.

If they believe they can join the pirate ship for a bit and then return to their normal life without being an outlaw, then it seems like the "farmer joints the militia" example, only serious.

My personal opinion is that they should go even further and get rid of perfect defenses completely. This is just based on the experience as a player of putting a lot of resources into a powerful attack and having it negated was not fun, and I don’t think making them harder to use / rarer is the solution (that just means when you do come against an enemy that has access to them it’s more of a surprise.) I like the model of Heavenly Guardian Defense much better, where it’s very effective against a big attack but it still makes you spend resources proportional to what you’re blocking so Charms used against you aren’t totally negated.

Finally, a question:

What would be a typical negative consequence or complication from summoning Octavian? More than the other demons, he seems less weird / both useful and dangerous / useful for something particular and more just straightforwardly powerful.

How about everyone around you going, "Oh fuck, that crazy bastard just summoned Octavian!" And then nobody else wants to hang out with you because your new buddy is a demon general literally Hell-bent on world domination.

TL;DR negative impact on reputation/people get scared.

[DrLoveMonkey]

What would be a typical negative consequence or complication from summoning Octavian? More than the other demons, he seems less weird / both useful and dangerous / useful for something particular and more just straightforwardly powerful.[/FONT][/COLOR]

Third Edition is very different from second in the way demons are controlled. In second edition basically demons were bound by the letter of your word, and as long as you worded things very specifically they could never, ever disobey. Like you sit a blood-ape on babysitting duty for your herd of pet cats, and tell them to be nice to the cats and pet them softly and make sure they're happy, and they must obey that command perfectly.

In third it's a bit different, you summon the demon, and they gain intimacies as though they were a truly loyal servant, but they're subject to otherwise human failings. If you put bloodapes in charge of cat babysitting they will try very hard to do what you say, but they might get hungry, or agitated, or tired, and lose control. Or they might simply lack the fine motor skills and understanding to pet cats gently how they want to be pet, and they'd screw it up, the cats would scratch them and then maybe some cats go missing.


So take that kind of idea and put it on a scale of the Quarter Prince of Hell, the Fallen Tower, Octavian.

"Love is unnecessary"
"His empire (Ambition)"
"Strategy and cunning are no match for brute force"
"I will test my strength against the world"


You have a servant who doesn't believe in love, who very much wants to grow and improve his empire, and who is desperate to test his strength against legendary foes. You can tell him "Wait here, we're going to lure the enemy into an ambush" and he'll try, but if there's any hint at all that the plan is going south, he can justify to himself "Weeeellll you know this isn't exactly working out, the plan's already ruined right? I think so. I'm sure it is. LEEEROOOOYYYY JEEEENKINS!" and off he goes.

Plus anything you do or say in front of Octavian he will take back with him to Hell, so watch out.

[TheCountAlucard]

What would be a typical negative consequence or complication from summoning Octavian? More than the other demons, he seems less weird / both useful and dangerous / useful for something particular and more just straightforwardly powerful.

So, I can't speak for others, but in one of my games, a PC used a Working to bring Octavian across the Endless Desert unbound. As such, Octavian wasn't magically loyal to him; he just had a general low-grade sense of indebtedness to him for bringing him to Creation.

The other PCs almost immediately started to feel alienated by his presence; he was brash and direct and quick to violence. He was unconvinced of the need for subtlety, and was vocally critical of the PCs who reined in their own power and didn't think the circle up to taking on the full might of the Wyld Hunt. While he never physically attacked the PCs themselves (except for accidentally breaking his summoner's arm in a sparring match), if the PCs needed something, he saw no issue with using violence to acquire it for them; for example, when the summoner made a deal with Makarios in a later session, promising one hundred people branded with Makarios' mark in exchange for a fabulous demon ship, the next time the PCs saw a ship, Octavian immediately flew over on his wasp, smashed their rudder, and made the crew turn themselves over to the summoner for branding.

[habitableexoplanet]

You have a servant who doesn't believe in love, who very much wants to grow and improve his empire, and who is desperate to test his strength against legendary foes. You can tell him "Wait here, we're going to lure the enemy into an ambush" and he'll try, but if there's any hint at all that the plan is going south, he can justify to himself "Weeeellll you know this isn't exactly working out, the plan's already ruined right? I think so. I'm sure it is. LEEEROOOOYYYY JEEEENKINS!" and off he goes.

Thanks! (And thanks to everyone who responded - these are all good suggestions.)

I was interpreting this passage from his writeup as putting a damper on that sort of thing:

He seeks new nations to conquer and new worlds for his empire to encompass, making him an eager ally for sorcerers seeking a battle-champion or bodyguard. Even when bound to stand guard duty or murder some insignificant mortal, the Living Tower views each foray into Creation as a glimpse of what he will one day command.

It seems like if you give him a job that requires waiting / discretion he will be happy to do it because it gives him a chance to check out things he will one day conquer, and he won't decide to start conquering them today.

But still, I can see how to reconcile that with some chaos-causing.

Plus anything you do or say in front of Octavian he will take back with him to Hell, so watch out.

This of course fits very well with that part of the writeup, although a year is a long time.

[Organ Boy]

My personal opinion is that they should go even further and get rid of perfect defenses completely. This is just based on the experience as a player of putting a lot of resources into a powerful attack and having it negated was not fun, and I don’t think making them harder to use / rarer is the solution (that just means when you do come against an enemy that has access to them it’s more of a surprise.) I like the model of Heavenly Guardian Defense much better, where it’s very effective against a big attack but it still makes you spend resources proportional to what you’re blocking so Charms used against you aren’t totally negated.

Finally, a question:

What would be a typical negative consequence or complication from summoning Octavian? More than the other demons, he seems less weird / both useful and dangerous / useful for something particular and more just straightforwardly powerful.[/FONT][/COLOR]

As another player, I completely disagree and would in fact welcome more and better perfect defenses in the game. May be a result of the shoe being on the other foot but from the other perspective relatively cheaply negating a powerful attack by a powerful NPC or other insurmountable threat isn't something you see often in a lot of TTRPGs. I think making it harder to use/rarer does minimise the issue of "rocket tag" but that the inviolability is a crucial part of presenting the threat of the Exalted and other comparably powerful entities.

As for Octavian-as a narrative idea, what if summoning him draws negative attention from earth elementals and earth-related gods? Octavian is quite a baneful being against the earth in general, with a history for warmongering, and inprevious editions had a love for it that turned to wrath. There could very well be a history there that many may take action to avoid seeing history repeat. As a general and conqueror Octavian likely has a lot more negtive, high profile relationships with the spirits of Creation in general from previous summonings given his brutality.

[DrLoveMonkey]

For Safety Among Enemies do you think proper math applies? Like if somebody throws a +20 initiative attack at you, you have 5i, can you redirect it at somebody with -20?

[Sith_Happens]

I don’t see why not and that makes it actually usable.

[DrLoveMonkey]

I figured but I wasn’t sure if there was a ruling that adding negative initiative didn’t subtract it.

[TGUEIROS]

So, scrutinizing some DB mechanics for an upcoming game and since I have been away a bit, would like to know if this has been asked/answered before going to Ask the Devs:

If a Charm has more than one Element Keyword, but the description doesn't state separate uses, which in turn apply the keywords separately, what does it do?

Were Charms like 'Swift Rain, Fierce Storm' and 'Boughs of Burning Autumn' designed to knock you out of any Aura you have, being that the described effect seems to be both Air and Water (Fire and Wood) at the same time, and aren't Balanced?

Or are you allowed to choose which keyword you want from it?

If possible please state the book or dev ruling on it.

Thanks a lot!

[Moss Reynholm]

You pick the aspect most advantageous to you (see the Multiple Aspects boxout on page 163 of WFHW for reference).

So if you want to be in Air aura and use an Air/Water charm, you're all good.

[Grod_the_giant]

If you take one of the example Immaculate of ____ Dragonblooded QCs and put them in a warstrider, how much stronger do they get? Are we talking "obviously stronger but still gets flattened one-on-one?" On par with a Solar with a secondary investment in combat? On par with a Dawn? Ready to fight the whole Circle?

[DrLoveMonkey]

If you take one of the example Immaculate of ____ Dragonblooded QCs and put them in a warstrider, how much stronger do they get? Are we talking "obviously stronger but still gets flattened one-on-one?" On par with a Solar with a secondary investment in combat? On par with a Dawn? Ready to fight the whole Circle?

That really depends on stronger against what. If you want them to fight a Dawn with really high defense they actually get substantially weaker because they now have a -4 penalty to hit human sized targets. If you want them to fight an army they become immensely more powerful.