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  • Originally posted by Altasaire View Post

    No, I meant the specific thing of Windblades vs jetpacks. Why is an artifact jetpack fine but an artifact (non-FAA) hoverboard isn't? I am generally fine with FAA airships and other mass-conveyances, but this seems personal flight vs personal flight, and it's very weird.
    Because while wings of the raptor are not necessarily a jetpack. You describe it as such, but most of the time they manifest as something more like Icarus wings. While the wingblade is pretty overlty a hoverboard you can even huck at folks heads as a weapon ala being Yuffie from FF7. It's a subtle thing, but it's at that kind of line where opinion kind of matters there, and hwo the item was presented also probably does impact its assumed aesthetics.


    And stuff.
    My DeviantArt Page // My tumblr // Exalted 3e Houserules

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    • Originally posted by Blaque View Post

      Because while wings of the raptor are not necessarily a jetpack. You describe it as such, but most of the time they manifest as something more like Icarus wings. While the wingblade is pretty overlty a hoverboard you can even huck at folks heads as a weapon ala being Yuffie from FF7. It's a subtle thing, but it's at that kind of line where opinion kind of matters there, and hwo the item was presented also probably does impact its assumed aesthetics.
      By that logic neither a windblade is (necessarily) a magitech hoverboard but also can be an enchanted taoist sword.

      By Minton's opinion, aesthetics doesn't matter, functionality does, and FAA can take the shape of enchanted barques with legendary sails or wings, not inherently magitech cruisers. Ergo, there's something about windblades which makes them functionally better than WotR and other non-assumption-breaking flight methods, which I can't find.

      Like, what stops me from awakening "is functionally a Windblade" evocation in a regular grand daiklave with fitting themes? Since all Windblades are strictly FAA, I can't do that. That's the core of the struggle I'm having.
      Last edited by Altasaire; 02-09-2021, 06:10 PM.

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      • Originally posted by Blaque View Post

        Because while wings of the raptor are not necessarily a jetpack. You describe it as such, but most of the time they manifest as something more like Icarus wings. While the wingblade is pretty overlty a hoverboard you can even huck at folks heads as a weapon ala being Yuffie from FF7. It's a subtle thing, but it's at that kind of line where opinion kind of matters there, and hwo the item was presented also probably does impact its assumed aesthetics.
        Yeah I feel like an actual jetpack, like the Rocketeer would be FAA. A cloak that looks like this and lets you fly is not FAA, you're just like a raven sorceress. A board that looks like this and lets you fly is because you're a technowizard.

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        • Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post

          Yeah I feel like an actual jetpack, like the Rocketeer would be FAA. A cloak that looks like this and lets you fly is not FAA, you're just like a raven sorceress. A board that looks like this and lets you fly is because you're a technowizard.
          Minton said that in this edition aesthetics isn't locked to ability and you can have magitech-looking artifacts at the non-FAA level of artifact expertise, as an aesthetic and design choice of a given Exalt making them, see quote;

          Originally posted by E. Minton
          It has nothing to do with thematics, but with impact on the setting. Artifacts that let an Exalt fly don't warp the setting away from the canonical presentation of the Age of Sorrows, so they don't require First Age artifice, whether they manifest as a winged cloak or as a jetpack. Airships do warp the setting away from the canonical presentation of the Age of Sorrows, so they do require First Age artifice, whether they manifest as a winged trireme or as a sci-fi skycruiser with turbines and arc reactors.

          (This is covered in the First Age Artifice sidebar on p. 116 of Arms of the Chosen.)

          So a WotR-like artifact which is is a jetpack-analogue (made of, say, red and white jade) is fair game. So the technowizard hoverboard should, ostensibly, be also fair game, but it isn't. My question is, why? Am I missing something about Windblades and their unique impact on the setting?

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          • Originally posted by Altasaire View Post
            Like, what stops me from awakening "is functionally a Windblade" evocation in a regular grand daiklave with fitting themes? Since all Windblades are strictly FAA, I can't do that. That's the core of the struggle I'm having.
            Well functionally a windblade is much better at making you fly than Wings of the Raptor is. Wings of the Raptor gives you wings that you need space to be able to actually fly in, and take movement penalties for it, for the cost of 10m and 1wp committed. A windblade is 5m per hour, non-committed, and you actually gain it's speed bonus in non-charm dice, rather than take a penalty, and don't need space to maneuver giant wings in. It can also transformers-style collapse this huge surfboard down into a belt-buckle.

            Which is all in addition to the attunement bonus, rather than Wings of the Raptor's attunement bonus getting you the first flight charm. They only thing it has on the Windblade for flight is that after buying an additional 2 charms and getting Essence 3 its overland flight is faster and you get bonus evasion.

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            • Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post

              Well functionally a windblade is much better at making you fly than Wings of the Raptor is. Wings of the Raptor gives you wings that you need space to be able to actually fly in, and take movement penalties for it, for the cost of 10m and 1wp committed. A windblade is 5m per hour, non-committed, and you actually gain it's speed bonus in non-charm dice, rather than take a penalty, and don't need space to maneuver giant wings in. It can also transformers-style collapse this huge surfboard down into a belt-buckle.

              Which is all in addition to the attunement bonus, rather than Wings of the Raptor's attunement bonus getting you the first flight charm. They only thing it has on the Windblade for flight is that after buying an additional 2 charms and getting Essence 3 its overland flight is faster and you get bonus evasion.
              It also doesn't let you rise past medium range in height which is a huge downside, so it's about on par, that considered, no? You can't windblade up a big tower or a mountain (without Evocations, at least.)

              [ Come to think of it, that raises the question of "how did one of the wielders of the sample one rise to the top of Bagrash Köl's tower?", but that's beside the point. ]
              Last edited by Altasaire; 02-09-2021, 06:26 PM.

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              • Originally posted by Altasaire View Post

                It also doesn't let you rise past medium range in height which is a huge downside, so it's about on par, that considered, no? You can't windblade up a big tower or a mountain (without Evocations, at least.)
                I wouldn't think so. Firstly a mountain is ground, so you can definitely windblade up it, no question at all. A windblade might not be able to get up a very tall tower without jumping from one area to the other. If it's just one big smooth tower you're probably screwed, but if it's attached to some shorter building I think you can just use the various other places to step up.

                The wings of the raptor though, those impose a -3 martial penalty to all physical actions in combat, assuming you can even take to the air if the space is open enough, whereas the windblade not only doesn't give you a -3, it gives you a non-charm +2 to the movement ones. Windblades just make your character fly, in ways that even Exalted charms don't let you do. The best DB flight charm costs 4i per round to use, and Solars don't even really have one at all.

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                • Originally posted by Altasaire View Post

                  By that logic neither a windblade is (necessarily) a magitech hoverboard but also can be an enchanted taoist sword.

                  By Minton's opinion, aesthetics doesn't matter, functionality does, and FAA can take the shape of enchanted barques with legendary sails or wings, not inherently magitech cruisers. Ergo, there's something about windblades which makes them functionally better than WotR and other non-assumption-breaking flight methods, which I can't find.

                  Like, what stops me from awakening "is functionally a Windblade" evocation in a regular grand daiklave with fitting themes? Since all Windblades are strictly FAA, I can't do that. That's the core of the struggle I'm having.
                  I would argue probably that some xianxia stuff like that might just not have fit in the aesthetics that the game wants. It's neat, but it is not something that an item in itself probably does regularly in Creaiton in the modern day, hence FAA.

                  Again, it exists at the blurry line of going either way and matters as much I think how much the writers thought they wanted that to be soemthing you do regularly today or have as something that is some lost art or hyper exotic thing.


                  And stuff.
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                  • Originally posted by Blaque View Post

                    I would argue probably that some xianxia stuff like that might just not have fit in the aesthetics that the game wants. It's neat, but it is not something that an item in itself probably does regularly in Creaiton in the modern day, hence FAA.

                    Again, it exists at the blurry line of going either way and matters as much I think how much the writers thought they wanted that to be soemthing you do regularly today or have as something that is some lost art or hyper exotic thing.

                    That's fair, but it's artifact 4, it's a priceless really rare treasure either way.

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                    • Minton said Wings aren't FAA but a flying ship is.

                      So WotR are fine. No need to explain that.

                      A Windblade is kinda like a flying ship.

                      It's a heavy artifact weapon, which means it can deal comparable damage with a first age flying ship.
                      It's not great for cargo and transport, but it does fold down to the size of a belt buckle.
                      It's a heavy weapon with (in Solar hands) an additional +4 Accuracy, which is huge because there are no other comparable weapons (excepting for hypothetical thrown warstrider weapons). Even without Precision of the Striking Raptor it's still Best in Class for damage and accuracy. And "Class" isn't thrown weapons -- it's all personal scale weapons, period (Dragon Sigh Wands are a close second).
                      And you swap the -3 Wings penalty for +2 Speed Bonus.
                      And it's much faster on attunement, and still pretty competitive three Evocations in (70mph vs 80mph).
                      And it costs less to maintain the flight.
                      And you don't need 20' clearance to use one.

                      But you can't fly more than Medium from the ground.

                      So...

                      Remove the ability to attack with a Windblade.
                      Add a 5 dice penalty to cancel the speed bonus.
                      Make the travel speed seven times slower.
                      And remove the ability to collapse to a belt buckle.

                      And then you too can have a magitech hoverboard, just like Marty McFly -- no FAA required. Heck, keep the Medium range thing and throw on "can't cross water", and you can have it at 3 dots.

                      (That said, Wings of the Raptor should be way faster. On attunement it should double your travel speed, and the capstone should at least be 100mph to match Stormwind Rider. Maybe higher.)
                      Last edited by JohnDoe244; 02-09-2021, 07:06 PM.


                      Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

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                      • In short. Windblades are artifact weapons that you can fly on *while* using as a weapon, so should be harder to construct than two seperate artefacts that do not work that well together.

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                        • Which book is "Crucible of Legends?"

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                          • Originally posted by nalak42 View Post
                            Which book is "Crucible of Legends?"
                            3e Storyteller's Handbook. Will have advice on running the various Exalted types as NPCs (including core-type splashes for Getimians, Infernals and Alchemicals) and alternate ways to run some of the core's systems, among other things.


                            Scion 2E: What We Know - A wiki compiling info on second edition Scion.

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                            • How many Dragonblooded are out there in the 3e Time of Troubles?

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                              • Originally posted by Grod_the_giant View Post
                                How many Dragonblooded are out there in the 3e Time of Troubles?
                                Swiped from the boxout on p. 18 of WFHW:

                                A TERRESTRIAL CENSUS
                                No one knows the exact number of Dragon-Blooded in Creation today. Approximate numbers follow:

                                Dynasts: 10,000
                                Dynastic outcastes: 4,000
                                Cadet house members: 750
                                Patricians: 250
                                Prasadi: 2,000
                                Lookshyans: 3,000
                                Foreign outcastes: 5,000
                                Last edited by Moss Reynholm; 02-10-2021, 11:30 AM.

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