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  • dreamking89
    started a topic Ask a question, get an answer

    Ask a question, get an answer

    I'm not sure if this was in the former forums, but I feel it should be made.

    This is a forum for Exalted questions that won't necessarily take up an entire thread, but rather require one or two answers from fellow players. I imagine this would cover newbie questions on the rules, canon and whatnot, but given that Exalted is a pretty complex game I feel this is necessary.

    I'll start: What's the point of the Socialize skill? Throughout my running of Exalted, I have never run across a situation where Socialize could be used where it couldn't be easily replaced by Presence. Does anyone else have this problem?

  • Uknown DarkLord
    replied
    [2.5], for soldier troop makeup of the Deshun provinces, particularly Serrat, how many soldiers are there, excluding militia? I figure a dragon for the city of Serrat, a dragon for the surrounding 2-3 cities. And then the commercial farms latifundia, probably 150,000 or so slaves there? So maybe 75 latifundia or so? If Serrat has a population of 60,000, then that's a 92:1 ratio of citizen and slave to soldier. Then there's probably the rough equivalent of 22 full scales of soldiers.

    So would it make sense for there to be 3000 Eighth Legion soldiers in slave satrap, along with all the militia?

    Leave a comment:


  • Kelly Pedersen
    replied
    Originally posted by Uknown DarkLord View Post
    I'm just noticing that 3rd edition charms don't have the obvious keyword any longer.
    [snip]

    Take Ship Claiming Stance.
    [snip]

    Is this correct? Or is there something I'm missing?
    In the case of Ship-Claiming Stance, you're correct, it now only takes a few moments and isn't obvious. I don't know why that change was made - I'd speculate it's for a few reasons. First, taking a few minutes is something that can be done out of sight of land or other vessels pretty easily, so the requirement wasn't actually that onerous, and it doesn't hurt game balance to remove it. Second, 2e's version of Ship-Claiming Stance explicitly mentioned the small god of the vessel, which aren't a thing in 3e, so taking time to commune with something that isn't there doesn't make much sense.

    More generally, I believe that dropping the Obvious keyword was part of the general drive to make 3e have fewer mechanical moving parts: fewer keywords in general, for example. Now, if a charm is obvious, that's going to be clear from its description. Take the Melee charm Call the Blade, for example - it literally causes a weapon to move on its own across the battlefield to the Solar's hand. That's going to be obviously magical to onlookers, and it doesn't really need a keyword to say that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Uknown DarkLord
    replied
    I'm just noticing that 3rd edition charms don't have the obvious keyword any longer. So... while there are some that are obviously obvious, like multi action attack charms because of inhuman ability, are others just obvious if you use peripheral essence?

    Take Ship Claiming Stance. 2.5 it was obvious. Meaning in the 6 minutes you spent claiming the ship it was obvious that you were doing something magical with the ship. Now in 3rd edition it's simple instant charm. Which means that if you're using personal essence, you're able to claim a ship without anyone knowing over the course of 5-6 seconds.

    Is this correct? Or is there something I'm missing?

    Leave a comment:


  • MoroseMorgan
    replied
    Chausse here, have a Vance Quote-

    http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...52#post1080152

    And a bonus quote too!

    http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...84#post1078584

    Leave a comment:


  • Kelly Pedersen
    replied
    Originally posted by Chausse View Post

    Yeah, but I feel like it doesn't help me to chose when I ask for Presence or Socialize, because ususally where you can use Socialize you can also use Presence.

    I believe that's intentional - both characters who are good at Presence and those good at Socialize should be generally good at persuading people to do things. In many cases, it's simply a question of how you describe the attempt.

    However, I think there are some differences between the Abilities which will influence how they are used. First, Socialize is more subtle than Presence. Presence is always going to involve stepping up and asking directly, demanding, or otherwise stating openly what you're asking. At best, you might use reverse psychology, but even that's going to be pretty obvious, at least to onlookers. Socialize, on the other hand, can be much more circuitous in its requests. You could have an hour-long conversation, apparently about tea, the latest book in the ongoing romance novel series, and idle gossip, and somehow, at the end, your partner could have been convinced to rebel against House Cynis. Socialize can even potentially persuade someone without you ever talking directly to them - you could start a whisper campaign in court that moved a courtier to do something you wanted, even though you never directly spoke to her. The flipside of this, however, is that Socialize is slower than Presence. It requires those long conversations, bringing stuff up subtly, and so on. If you're bursting into a room and shouting "There's no time to lose! We have to attack Thorns now!", you're using Presence.

    The other distinction I draw between the two is that Socialize requires some kind of shared social context. It doesn't work if you're talking to a complete stranger who has absolutely no idea who you are or how you fit into their social structure. This limitation is relatively easily overcome, however, since it doesn't typically take too long to establish this sort of thing, even if all you do is fit yourself into the "weird foreigner" box in people's heads. It's mostly covered by the extra time requirement of Socialize. But you do risk getting fitted into a social role that the person has a negative Intimacy towards - lots of people are mildly xenophobic, for instance, and dropping into the "weird foreigner" slot in their mind could result in some difficulties persuading them later. Presence, on the other hand, is capable of affecting strangers right away, and is often useful for establishing yourself in a role in their minds that isn't negative.

    Leave a comment:


  • Epee102
    replied
    Originally posted by Chausse View Post

    Yeah, but I feel like it doesn't help me to chose when I ask for Presence or Socialize, because ususally where you can use Socialize you can also use Presence.
    It’s entirely dependent on how you phrase your argument, yes. The exception being read intentions I guess.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chausse
    replied
    Originally posted by Accelerator View Post
    I've been wondering about 5 dots in an ability.

    Melee: you're a swordsman. You're that guy who can cut down a dozen men in 6 strokes.

    Archery: Robin Hood or simo hayha. Striking dozens of men at once. Sniping apples off branches.

    Scholae: edison, Steven hawking, or Einstein

    How would you describe performance, like singing or dancing. Or things like politics?
    Performance : Noureev, the dancer

    Politics : Caesar or something I guess ? The phantasm of all great Emperors and Kings of European History

    Leave a comment:


  • Chausse
    replied
    Originally posted by Epee102 View Post

    Socialize is using social rules, standards of behavior, norms, and so on. Presence is about using personal magnetism and force of personality.
    Yeah, but I feel like it doesn't help me to chose when I ask for Presence or Socialize, because ususally where you can use Socialize you can also use Presence.

    Leave a comment:


  • Accelerator
    replied
    I've been wondering about 5 dots in an ability.

    Melee: you're a swordsman. You're that guy who can cut down a dozen men in 6 strokes.

    Archery: Robin Hood or simo hayha. Striking dozens of men at once. Sniping apples off branches.

    Scholae: edison, Steven hawking, or Einstein

    How would you describe performance, like singing or dancing. Or things like politics?

    Leave a comment:


  • Epee102
    replied
    Originally posted by Chausse View Post
    While I appreciate your explanation from a "just play along" point of view, from design if someone said "I try to throw a rock really hard at this guy with Athletics" I would answer a straight no, and it feels kind of natural to me. For some reason, I can't discern what is supposed to be the context difference between Socialize, Presence and to some extent Performance (Oratory) (other than "socialize is in court lol&quot, and I would like to pinpoint it in a more accurate way to better the experience of my players.

    I think having my kings and leaders in courts having an intimacy about "court standing" would feel very dull, especially if I give it to all the PNJ in court to stay in line with the fact that everyone dislikes people shouting loud at the table, so I'd rather have it integrated in the concept of Socialize vs Presence, but I don't know how
    Socialize is using social rules, standards of behavior, norms, and so on. Presence is about using personal magnetism and force of personality.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chausse
    replied
    While I appreciate your explanation from a "just play along" point of view, from design if someone said "I try to throw a rock really hard at this guy with Athletics" I would answer a straight no, and it feels kind of natural to me. For some reason, I can't discern what is supposed to be the context difference between Socialize, Presence and to some extent Performance (Oratory) (other than "socialize is in court lol"), and I would like to pinpoint it in a more accurate way to better the experience of my players.

    I think having my kings and leaders in courts having an intimacy about "court standing" would feel very dull, especially if I give it to all the PNJ in court to stay in line with the fact that everyone dislikes people shouting loud at the table, so I'd rather have it integrated in the concept of Socialize vs Presence, but I don't know how

    Leave a comment:


  • prototype00
    replied
    Thats where intimacies come into play, honestly. If you try to use presence in a court-situation and you are brash about it, there might be competing intimacies in the person being influenced that can block the roll (if they are there).

    Leave a comment:


  • Chausse
    replied
    So, I know this is basically the first question asked on this thread, but I was not very convinced by the answers.

    How do you use socialize and presence ? I feel socialize is much more contextual than socialize and everytime a player uses socialize I feel he could have used presence. At the same time, I feel like I should punish a player trying to use Presence in a very "court situation" because he breaks the rules of etiquette but I don't know how.

    Any suggestions ?

    Leave a comment:


  • Epee102
    replied
    Originally posted by Accelerator View Post
    So....

    Lore: Adding carbon and oxygen to iron means that the patterns and sheets are disrupted, making the metal stronger
    Craft: This is how you add the carbon

    Lore: Ghosts despise salt, and love blood
    Craft: this is how to make an anti-ghost talisman.

    ?
    More or less. I’d modify the Crafts to “how good you are at adding carbon/making the talisman”, and I’d make the “making a talisman” occult possibly. Lore is also context dependent. You don’t just know things, you know them because of where you were taught; “according to the writings of Suc Handsuch, ghosts find the purity of salt unbeatable. A cunning occultist could make a ward by exploiting that fact.”

    Leave a comment:

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