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Upon the Rock of Tradition: Memorials [Upcoming Fan Splat]

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Mr.Jaxus View Post
    I'm not sure about the idea of losing their exaltation really would fit in, but the idea of a retired exalt sound kind of fun, espically the tutoring a younger exalt.
    That's why I'm most worried about it. The game has so far been written with the idea that Exalts are Exalts for life and only death can take it from you, but the idea of passing the mantle along, like a new person taking up the Mask of Zorro or the Green Lantern's Ring, seems so fitting for an Exalt heavily tied to tradition.

    This has implications, though. While supernatural compulsion won't work to force a Memorial to give up being a Memorial, there isn't anything stopping the Guild or someone else from kidnapping a Memorial's family and using them to blackmail the Memorial into giving up his powers. I'm sure there's more I haven't thought of yet.

    Originally posted by WarDragon View Post

    Is this possible? Can a former Memorial attain another Exaltation of a different kind?
    I have no plans to define it one way or the other. Choose whichever is most interesting for your game.



    Masters of the Industrial Elements
    Upon the Rock of Tradition: The Memorial Exalted
    Ghosts: A Revision (2nd Edition)
    The Underworld (3rd Edition)
    ​From The Crucible: Crafting As A Struggle

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    • #32
      Originally posted by WarDragon View Post

      Is this possible? Can a former Memorial attain another Exaltation of a different kind?
      It's such an incredibly rare possibility (retirement is rare in itself, compound that with the rare chance of exalting...) that I see no reason to speak one way or the other on it. GM's fiat on if it can happen or not.

      Keep in mind that we intend Retired Memorials to be on the level of Heroic Mortals, Godbloods, or half-castes (depending on 3e, of course.) They should be able to keep everything an enlightened mortal could reasonably learn, like Terrestrial Martial arts and basic sorcery, in addition to maybe a few low-level charms.

      Also keep in mind that I've always intended Memorials to be very "fuzzy" around borders of definition, since they live in the borders between life and death; spiritual and physical exaltation. So, even though they have given up the physical catalyst, are they still considered Memorial Exalts, or are they not?

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      • #33
        I've got a treat for anyone who has been following this project. This is the current layout of Memorial Charms. I used UMLet, a free UML diagramming tool, to make it. If you don't want to download the tool, rename the file to .xml and you can read all the Charm descriptions, though you won't see the prerequisites layout or which Ability each Charm is associated with. The diagram is not completely finished yet - you'll notice that some Abilities have only a single Charm to their name so far. Further, the layout is using 2nd edition design principles, on the assumption that the 3rd edition engine will have some equivalent for anything in 2nd edition. The actual 3rd edition Charm set will probably be more numerous, will additional places to anchor Charms in the rule set.

        With those disclaimers out of the way, let me know what you think. Are there any Charm names you hate? Charms that seem too early in a tree or sound too strong for an almost-Terrestrial? Any that you'd like more explanation about?



        Masters of the Industrial Elements
        Upon the Rock of Tradition: The Memorial Exalted
        Ghosts: A Revision (2nd Edition)
        The Underworld (3rd Edition)
        ​From The Crucible: Crafting As A Struggle

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        • #34
          actually, what does a Catalyst look like? Is there a standard form or could it be any artefact made of amber?


          My homebrew blog

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Mr.Jaxus View Post
            actually, what does a Catalyst look like? Is there a standard form or could it be any artefact made of amber?

            The Catalyst is something intensely personal, it's different for every Memorial; yet it is an object of legacy. Basically, "This is your father's sword, passed down through the generations."

            We haven't quite detailed it out more than that, since we're still debating what happens between "generations" of Memorials--does the shape stay the same no matter what, can you reshape it as a crafting action, does it reform in the process of Exaltation? We also want to check out Evocations to make sure this concept space doesn't stray too close to that either.

            As it stands, they are part of and connected to the Exaltation, not a pure amber artifact. But the plan was to let you buy background dots to have them as an artifact. (0 dots, it's like a ceremonial sword, 5 dots a useful sword with its own powers, etc.) Though that is still in development ideas too.

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            • #36
              As currently conceived, A Catalyst can be shaped into any form desired and usually acts as a commitment-free Artifact for the Memorial. While we haven't fully nailed down the specifics of shaping the Catalyst (3e isn't out yet and the Craft system is changing), the inherent power of the Catalyst as an Artifact probably won't ever exceed that of a three-dot Artifact. However, Memorials will have access to some Catalyst-only Evocations that will be more powerful than their normal Evocations. All Catalysts have amber as their chief (but not necessarily the only) material.

              The Catalyst is Excalibur to King Arthur (or the Sword in the Stone, depending on which mythology you subscribe to). It is his source of power, his signature weapon, and a key part of his identity.



              Masters of the Industrial Elements
              Upon the Rock of Tradition: The Memorial Exalted
              Ghosts: A Revision (2nd Edition)
              The Underworld (3rd Edition)
              ​From The Crucible: Crafting As A Struggle

              Comment


              • #37
                I came up with an odd motivation for a Memorial not too long ago. The bar for entry into the splat is a deep respect for the power of history, so I thought to myself "Self, y'know that means they can equally validly respect that the accumulated history of the world is the cause for all their problems.", so in the end I came up with the idea of a Memorial who wants to make all things descend into Lethe, wiping away the history of the world and remaking all things as in the beginning.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by PlotVitalNPC View Post
                  I came up with an odd motivation for a Memorial not too long ago. The bar for entry into the splat is a deep respect for the power of history, so I thought to myself "Self, y'know that means they can equally validly respect that the accumulated history of the world is the cause for all their problems.", so in the end I came up with the idea of a Memorial who wants to make all things descend into Lethe, wiping away the history of the world and remaking all things as in the beginning.
                  That would be a valid concept, and would make a good reason why a Memorial would pal around with Abyssals. Unless they had a major disagreement between dragging Creation down to the Void or to Lethe.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Dragonmystic View Post

                    That would be a valid concept, and would make a good reason why a Memorial would pal around with Abyssals. Unless they had a major disagreement between dragging Creation down to the Void or to Lethe.
                    Yeah, the two have similar goals, but ultimately erasing everything ever forever and undoing everything ever so it can start over are fairly irreconcilable goals.

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                    • #40
                      So, with the new information about Evocations, I'm starting to think somewhat about how Memorials would handle their Catalyst-specific Evocations. Currently, I think that, since artifact-specific Evocations would be ill-suited to something as widely available as a Catalyst, Catalyst Evocations should probably fall along broad group lines. I'm thinking that every Catalyst's form should qualify it for one of five categories, each aligned with a particular Caste's themes, so a Catalyst in the form of a staff could qualify for Scholar Evocations, a Catalyst in the form of a pair of boots could qualify for Wayfinder Evocations, and so on. There'd be some overlap between broad themes, of course, so a Catalyst in the form of a sword might qualify for either Warden or Revenant Evocations (only one, but the player get's to choose).

                      Thoughts?



                      Masters of the Industrial Elements
                      Upon the Rock of Tradition: The Memorial Exalted
                      Ghosts: A Revision (2nd Edition)
                      The Underworld (3rd Edition)
                      ​From The Crucible: Crafting As A Struggle

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Kyeudo View Post
                        So, with the new information about Evocations, I'm starting to think somewhat about how Memorials would handle their Catalyst-specific Evocations. Currently, I think that, since artifact-specific Evocations would be ill-suited to something as widely available as a Catalyst, Catalyst Evocations should probably fall along broad group lines. I'm thinking that every Catalyst's form should qualify it for one of five categories, each aligned with a particular Caste's themes, so a Catalyst in the form of a staff could qualify for Scholar Evocations, a Catalyst in the form of a pair of boots could qualify for Wayfinder Evocations, and so on. There'd be some overlap between broad themes, of course, so a Catalyst in the form of a sword might qualify for either Warden or Revenant Evocations (only one, but the player get's to choose).

                        Thoughts?

                        I have problems with it being the "form of staff, etc." thing. We don't want them to be equipment slots to be filled in. If we wanted to have caste themes, let's just make them caste themes. Either the evocations would be locked to a caste, or you would have to have an xp surcharge to go out of caste.


                        Though, what you are saying might be interesting for a normal Memorial Craft system.

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                        • #42
                          I suppose I should explain a bit more what I mean by caste themes and why I think that Catalyst form should influence them. Let's say that we have two Catalysts, both in the form of swords. One was reforged into a sword as a tool to defend people, the other as a weapon to use against specters. The first sword should have access to Warden Evocations (arranged around defense and protecting others) while the second sword should have access to Revenant Evocations (arranged around killing and putting ghosts to rest). The Caste of the Memorial who owns the Catalyst shouldn't be the determining factor, else a Founder who wants to make her Catalyst into a weapon would still only get access to Founder Evocations (arranged around creating and building things and cultures).

                          The form needs to be a determining factor, else there would be Grand Daiklaves with Scholar Evocations and that would just wouldn't make much sense. Now, the form isn't the final arbiter, as a cutlass with Wayfinder Evocations could make sense for a pirate captain, so the intent for which it was reforged should matter.



                          Masters of the Industrial Elements
                          Upon the Rock of Tradition: The Memorial Exalted
                          Ghosts: A Revision (2nd Edition)
                          The Underworld (3rd Edition)
                          ​From The Crucible: Crafting As A Struggle

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Wait, I just had an idea (yes, I know, rude of me to barge in like this. Apologies.)

                            What if all but their lowest-level charms were Evocations exclusive to Memorials? In other words, Charm 1 would be a native charm, Charm 2 would be a native charm, and then Charm 3a, 3b, and 3c are all Evocations.

                            That way, you don't need any other rules for them losing their Exaltation; they just automatically de-attune from their Catalyst after 100 years, and can never attune to one again. They keep their low-level charms, but lose all the ones that were Evocations.

                            No keywords, no extra rules text, no nothing. Just a note, and a long list of Evocations.


                            I have decided, after some thought, that I don't really feel happy on these forums. I might decide to come back to post. Who knows - but right now, I'm gone.

                            So good bye, good luck, and have a nice day.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by amechra View Post
                              Wait, I just had an idea (yes, I know, rude of me to barge in like this. Apologies.)
                              I started this discussion in public because I wanted feedback - this isn't set in stone yet, nor anywhere near finished.

                              What if all but their lowest-level charms were Evocations exclusive to Memorials? In other words, Charm 1 would be a native charm, Charm 2 would be a native charm, and then Charm 3a, 3b, and 3c are all Evocations.

                              That way, you don't need any other rules for them losing their Exaltation; they just automatically de-attune from their Catalyst after 100 years, and can never attune to one again. They keep their low-level charms, but lose all the ones that were Evocations.

                              No keywords, no extra rules text, no nothing. Just a note, and a long list of Evocations.
                              I'd save this model for an Exigent of <Particular Artifact Weapon's Least God>. I want Memorials to be more than just the Exalted of Ancestral Weapons and instead the Exalted of Memories. Their method of passing down Exaltations is meant to evoke other traditions, such as the passing of a crown from father to son, but isn't meant to express all that they are.



                              Masters of the Industrial Elements
                              Upon the Rock of Tradition: The Memorial Exalted
                              Ghosts: A Revision (2nd Edition)
                              The Underworld (3rd Edition)
                              ​From The Crucible: Crafting As A Struggle

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I know it's not on that it's a little off Evocations, and I will get to them, but I had a thought on the changing of the catalysts between exalts. It could be that when they receive their catalyst, how the Exalt views the previous exalt in their 'lineage'. If the previous exalt was a conquer of tribal nations that butchered his enemies and wielded his Catalyst Daiklaive in the bloody horrors that he called heroic combat, and his daiklaive catalyst and exaltation are inherited by his peace loving hier, then the sword becomes a dark and ominous tool of misery.

                                However if the next inheritor of the catalyst and exaltation is a scavenger lord over 300 years after the fall of the warlord's kingdom, the said catalyst daiklaive is a sword that's cross guard and pummel evoke lost majesty and it's blade in engraved with mysterious runes. Both changes are caused by how the receiver of catalyst feels about their predecessor, the pacifistic prince receives a violent and dark weapon, while the amazed scavenger lord finds something that is filled with the mystery and wonder he felt when he found the old exalt's tomb. While it's still the same daiklaive for both exalts, it's style and aesthetics are different in both cases.

                                So now to the Evocations, if the catalyst's style changes based on how the new memorial views their predecessor, so how about the Evocation sets they get. So instead of each of the castes having a set of Evocations, they are based on a feeling, ranging from pride and wonder to shame and disgust. It's just a thought, and I don't know how many emotions to have, but they really should have broad bases and open to lots of interpretation.


                                My homebrew blog

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