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Explain, please: Asna Firstborn, the Loom and Sidereals.

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  • Explain, please: Asna Firstborn, the Loom and Sidereals.

    I have a question about Asna Firstborn's power over the Loom. Is she capable to cut off a Sidereal from the Loom and deprive him/her of most of the their Exaltions tricks, charms and astrology? Or will a Sidereal blast away any such attempt with anti-shaping defences?
    Last edited by Durabys; 09-07-2014, 03:01 AM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Durabys View Post
    I have a question about Asna Firstborn's power over the Loom. Is she capable to cut off a Sidereal from the Loom and deprive him/hem of most of the their Exaltions tricks, charms and astrology? Or will a Sidereal blast away any such attempt with anti-shaping defences?
    In theory, nothing can prevent a Sidereal's powers from functioning, not even his Astrology, until/unless he's accumulated enough Paradox. Charms always work, and not even the Maidens can take back access to Charms once granted.

    That said, I could see Asna and her children causing some trouble with Astrology, if they happen to not like the guy. Charms always work, though; those are inherent in the character, regardless of how they're supposed to work.


    "We do not quit playing because we grow old, we grow old because we quit playing." - Oliver Wendell Holmes

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Durabys View Post
      I have a question about Asna Firstborn's power over the Loom. Is she capable to cut off a Sidereal from the Loom and deprive him/hem of most of the their Exaltions tricks, charms and astrology? Or will a Sidereal blast away any such attempt with anti-shaping defences?
      Speaking in generalities, you probably won't see an entity who has "flip off all of an Exalted's cool stuff by remote control" among their powers.


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      • #4
        Originally posted by Robert Vance View Post
        Speaking in generalities, you probably won't see an entity who has "flip off all of an Exalted's cool stuff by remote control" among their powers.
        Chiefly among the in-setting reasons being "they'd be chumps in the PW otherwise".
        At its core an exalt's power is undeniable, no need to work for it.

        Fate itself is a bit misunderstood, but on the player end it is an effective prediction and tracking tool (until essence factors in, then it's all bogus) and a way to nudge the odds in your favor.


        Check my Exalted homebrew!

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        • #5
          Hm. That is interesting. What happens when a Ronin comes into being? Can they be reconected with Fate and the Loom if they are found out by the Sidereals or Pattern Spiders?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Durabys View Post
            Hm. That is interesting. What happens when a Ronin comes into being? Can they be reconected with Fate and the Loom if they are found out by the Sidereals or Pattern Spiders?
            They're already connected to Fate and the Loom.

            They just don't work for Heaven and don't receive any training on how to use Astrology. They need to figure it out on their own.



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            • #7
              Originally posted by Nervaqus987 View Post

              They're already connected to Fate and the Loom.

              They just don't work for Heaven and don't receive any training on how to use Astrology. They need to figure it out on their own.

              So it is not possible to search for Ronin, get them to Heaven and get a teacher for them, right?

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              • #8
                It is totally possible to hunt down Ronin and bring them in and train them.
                There is nothing metaphysically special about Ronin, they just don't currently have access to the loom physically or the basic training to fully understand their powers.
                Last edited by Yoshar; 11-05-2013, 07:45 PM.


                Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Durabys View Post


                  So it is not possible to search for Ronin, get them to Heaven and get a teacher for them, right?

                  No, it's totally possible to hunt down a Ronin, beat them unconscious, and drag them up to Heaven to chain to a desk and get them to start filing paperwork and playing gofer for another Sid while being rewarded with the occasional bits of esoteric wisdom on beating a man to death with their own spine(aka, having a teacher).

                  Ronin are at the end of the day, Sidereals who don't work for Heaven. They're still Exalted, they're still capable of everything a regular Sid can do, they just don't have a job.



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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Nervaqus987 View Post


                    No, it's totally possible to hunt down a Ronin, beat them unconscious, and drag them up to Heaven to chain to a desk and get them to start filing paperwork and playing gofer for another Sid while being rewarded with the occasional bits of esoteric wisdom on beating a man to death with their own spine(aka, having a teacher).

                    Ronin are at the end of the day, Sidereals who don't work for Heaven. They're still Exalted, they're still capable of everything a regular Sid can do, they just don't have a job.
                    For Sidereals not working for Heaven isn't an option. They will be found and forcibly persuaded to work because sidereals need more staff. They always need more staff.

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                    • #11
                      Hint hint: you don't get on bad terms with the godling that will fill parperwork for you. Even if you are a godling yourself. It's a terrible life choice.


                      Check my Exalted homebrew!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post
                        For Sidereals not working for Heaven isn't an option. They will be found and forcibly persuaded to work because sidereals need more staff. They always need more staff.
                        I disagree.

                        For Abyssals, working for the Deathlords is an option even though they always need more Deathknights.

                        For Infernals, working for the Yozi and their Third Circles is an option, even though they always need powerful troubleshooters.

                        For Dragonblooded, working for the Realm or Lookshy or whatever is an option, even though they always need more Dragonblooded.

                        For Lunars, working for the Elders of the Silver Pact is an option, even though they always need disposable youngsters to throw at the Realm.

                        Solars, of course, do what they want except where mindrape and daiklaves are applied.

                        Alchemicals are the only splat that can't really tell their boss where to shove it, but even then, they can pop over to another Nation or else go Apostate(although Modern Alchemicals are perfectly capable of fucking off to do their own thing).

                        So if every other splat in the game have "Don't work for their bosses" as an option, I see absolutely no reason why Sidereals should be the only ones that don't have that.

                        It doesn't have to be easy, mind, but nor should it be impossible or a "You've gotta jump through 'Fix Creation' sized hoops to pull it off" task.



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                        • #13
                          Sidereals specifically work for the Bureau of Destiny. They are forced to work there. They get paid but the ones who don't get hunted. Because maintaining fate isn't an easy job. It requires as many sidereals as possible. It's not impossible for a sidereal to hide from them. However, they aren't going to get off like Dragon-Blooded, Lunars, and Solars. Abyssals, Infernals, Alchemicals, and Sidereals gain a shitload of baggage for doing so. Dragon-blooded who join the realm's enemies are in the same position as well.

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                          • #14
                            I think there's a sort of misunderstanding about what ronin are here, also a misunderstanding about what Sidereals are and why they work for the Bureau of Destiny.

                            Most Sidereals work for the Bureau of Destiny because they want to work for the Bureau of Destiny, because they're found when they're babies and carefully raised, not in Heaven, but in Creation communities with lives and childhoods managed by divine and Sidereal minders who work behind the scenes, Truman Show style, to ensure that the child grows up with the sort of upbringing that will forge them into the sort of people who want to work for the Bureau of Destiny. This is not, precisely, evil -- it's a job that needs doing, and it comes with fantastic rewards, and also Sidereals suffer from the Arcane Fate which means that only other Sidereals and high-Essence gods will ever be able to be proper peers. When they finally come of age and realize that everything in their life up until that moment has lead up to their Exaltation and the beginning of their great work, a reaction like "Oh my god you've been manipulating me to be complicit in your evil schemes this whole time, my entire life has been a lie!" is very uncommon. What mostly happens is they get that hero moment where they realize that they're the heroes of destiny and their patrons have been watching over them and ensuring they learn the right lessons, and now they're finally ready to assume the awesome responsibility of protecting the world. It's like something out of a fantasy book or story where the predestined hero realizes he's the chosen one. (That this position comes with a mansion in Heaven and access to the best food and prostitutes doesn't make the decision to embrace their new roles harder).

                            Ronin aren't Sidereals who aren't found when they're babies. I mean, that's probably happened! A couple of times! I'm going to say, oh, a dozen times in the history of Creation, and at least half of those were in the wake of the Usurpation. There are probably five-hundred or a thousand-year stretches in Creation's history where there are absolutely no ronin like that is alive.

                            Most ronin are Sidereals who have left the Bureau for personal reasons, grown disillusioned with Heavenly politics, abandoned the patronage of their, uh, patrons, and gone into Creation to find their own way.

                            To be clear the Bureau of Destiny is not Treadstone or Blackbriar and ronin Sidereals are not Jason Bourne. They're not hunted like fugitives except for the ones who actually do go ronin because they're fugitives. The Fivescore Fellowship is a tightly-knit peer group, because they all work together and they all suffer the Arcane Fate, so they can't have meaningful, lasting relationships outside of each other. If a family member leaves, reactions are mixed -- some relatives will turn their back, some will hope they return, some will respect their decision, some will try to convince them they're wrong, some will maintain covert ties while pretending to be just as alienated as the rest of the family. Many Sidereals who go ronin come back on their own, eventually. Ten years, fifty years, they find themselves, or they accomplish what they set out to do, or they realize they were wrong, or they just get lonely; they establish ties again and report back to work. That this is a thing that happens is taken into account when the Fellowship decides how to react to a new Sidereal going ronin.

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                            • #15
                              This seems to be a thing then that changed from first and second edition in which they were explicitly brought back into the fold or killed.

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