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Mnemon and the Empress's feeling toward each other ?

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  • Mnemon and the Empress's feeling toward each other ?



    Big Red:
    Here's your lunch. I..It's not like I especially make it for you or anything. I...I just make too much. Geez ! Just take it already ! D...dummy !

    What is the Empress's feeling toward her treacherous daughter I wonder ? Seeing what happen to house Manosque I'm surprise that she let Mnemon lives. Does this mean that her Redness kindaaaaa~ like Mnemon, just a little. What about the pinky princess herself ? Does she hate her mom for never hugging her ? Or is she a megalomaniac from birth and feel that she's clearly superior to her mom ?


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  • #2
    I've always framed the Empress' struggle as one against public perception. It's very likely that she doesn't actually want to be the utterly ruthless tyrant she is, but she has to maintain that appearance in order to stay untouchable. The instant she shows weakness, schisms will form in the Realm, possibly leading to a cascade failure that leaves Creation unable to defend itself from the Thousand Dooms.

    Mnemon isn't crazy by nature. We know she was relatively normal until Ragara tried to kill her on her birthday. Since then, Mnemon has learned to be very good at playing the game. She knows the rules better than anyone else and can skirt them, but is utterly incapable of breaking them. Mnemon is the Realm personified.

    And that terrifies the Empress.

    With the political climate what it was, she couldn't help doing a terrible job raising her earlier kids. By the time Mnemon came along, things were more stable, so she could afford time to oversee her development. Of course, she still had to maintain her harsh image, so all she could do was provide Mnemon with every opportunity. And like the Realm itself, she created a monster who nevertheless would be vitally important in maintaining the safety of Creation.


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    • #3
      Well, Return of the Scarlet Empress confirmed that the Empress had a positive intimacy towards Mnemon. In story she also flat out told Ragara that if he killed his sister she would kill him, which implies that she at least liked her more then she liked Ragara.

      As for Mnemon? It hasn't ever really been clarified how exactly she feels about mother beyond 'I'm content to let her stay on the throne and wait for my turn instead of trying to kill her and take it now'.


      Exalted Whose Name is Carved in Leaves of Jade

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      • #4
        The empress, I think, is intentionally an enigma. The most characterization she had outside of being a political badass is in RotSE where you find a tear stained pillow and red silk robe in her room in the Imperial Manse. Was she crying because her life is so easy that a bunch of little things set her off? Was she crying because the weight of the world is on her shoulders all day and she feels responsible for it? Is she crying because of the terrible person she's had to become to maintain order? Is she crying because everyone looks to her and she doesn't have all the answers?

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        • #5
          I've always imagined the Empress as being a figure forged by circumstances into very nearly what her propaganda calls her; an unflappable badass whom the universe revolves around. She navigates the labyrinthine politics of her children, setting them one against each other because it amuses her to do so and also fractures their ability to fight her effectively. I would see her as secretly proud of Mnemon for her ability to survive as long as she has, but never able to admit it, as one could easily see another one of the House Elders using this to blackmail her.

          Granted, this is how I imagine her personally, the masses, and even many of the younger Dynasts I've played, see her akin to the depiction of the God-Emperor of 40k; a divine sign of the Dragons' Grace, and the sign that their right to rule is assured in the eyes of Heaven. It also must be said that I play most legion commanders and line officers as popular depictions of the Victorian-era British Royal Army, complete with silent resignation over the degeneracy of their opponents and assured of their victory, what with the Empress and the Dragons watching over them, so I guess my Realm is somewhat British in affectation? I dunno.

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          • #6
            In my headcanon, Mnemon desperately wants Big Red's love and respect. The irony is that already she has it, but Big Red doesn't show it, because she feels that would weaken her favorite daughter to the point that the things in her that she loves and respects most, her drive and ruthlessness, the things they have most in common, probably only exist because of the strained and distant nature of their relationship.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Dietaku View Post
              Granted, this is how I imagine her personally, the masses, and even many of the younger Dynasts I've played, see her akin to the depiction of the God-Emperor of 40k; a divine sign of the Dragons' Grace, and the sign that their right to rule is assured in the eyes of Heaven. It also must be said that I play most legion commanders and line officers as popular depictions of the Victorian-era British Royal Army, complete with silent resignation over the degeneracy of their opponents and assured of their victory, what with the Empress and the Dragons watching over them, so I guess my Realm is somewhat British in affectation? I dunno.
              I actually would say I imagine her a bit more like another God-Emperor actually, Paul Atreides of Dune. I picture both of them having a duality to their personas, the pubic face who understands that the entire world rests on their shoulders and to achieve stability they must be willing to perform acts of violence and force, and the private face who values kindness and humanity but also understands that those virtues are external to what it takes to be great leader. I think V'neef might be a reflection of this too, she was pretty clearly being groomed as a possible successor, maybe even more so than Mnemon, and she also would have been the person to unite both these concepts of kindness and strength.

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              • #8
                My version of the Empress didn't feel any particular emotion about Mnemon, besides a general concern arising from familial obligation (She's Family, and you're supposed to do certain things for Family even if you don't like, trust, or have any familiarity with them), and a vague worry that she might attempt a coup at some point (She's also young, relatively speaking, and just powerful enough to be greedy and reckless). In fact, the Empress didn't have strong feelings for anyone in the decades before she vanished. In response to centuries of hardship and plotting, She allowed Herself to harden until there was almost no empathy left in Her. She still felt emotion, but the only thing the Empress was passionate about is power.

                Mnemon doesn't know it, but she's taking after her mother quickly. She already sees her own mother as some kind of obstacle to her ambitions, although Mnemon is not to the point where she seriously might consider killing the Empress to take the throne. In some ways, the Empress' disappearance is a relief to Mnemon - now she is free to follow her ambitions without having to choose between filial piety, a desire to be respected by her parent, and the pursuit of power.
                Last edited by semicasual; 01-21-2015, 05:49 PM.


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                • #9
                  Mnemon is a sociopathic narcissist, but she was always respectful and knew her place, even sharing some of her mother's sense of humour. She never saw the need to scheme, since she took it as a given that she would outlive her mother and be the prime candidate to succeed her. The biggest source of friction between them seems to have been the matter of how the Scarlet Dynasty was organised; Mnemon doesn't seem to have really gotten the purpose of a dozen odd competing families of heirs.


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                  • #10
                    Been using the empress (at least backstory wise since she won't appear on screen) in my latest campaign as someone nearly entirely driven by a fate not even its own architects could control. It would not allow her to care for anything but her role in creation except in private and when nothing more important was around. Probably not entirely fitting with canon but it works for me.

                    Also I always read Mnemon as not being an actual sociopath or megalomaniac it is simple the success traits she has identified in the power structures of the realm and as any intelligent and pragmatic dragon blood she adopt them when faced with reality that she would probably otherwise be killed by family. If she would have been a human it would likely drive someone insane over time but medicine and integrity charms prevent that.
                    Last edited by chance; 01-21-2015, 07:54 PM.

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                    • #11
                      I honestly treat The Pink Princess's reationship as Horus from Warhammer 40K, and his relationship with his daddy. For those that didn't know Horus's daddy the Emperor of all man-kind did not hug him enough for show him enough love. he though did make him the master of his armies. So Horus threw a Giant Temper tantrum, and summoned up a giant army of demons to attack his daddy's palace.

                      I think there are a lot of good parallels and I might just make it a good parrallel.


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                      • #12
                        I play the Empress as a mother who loves her children...but refuses to put their needs before her duty to Creation. She gives them everything she can: power, riches, monopolies on important Realm functions and business, military power...and she tries to steer them towards what she sees as the correct way to behave, by making an example of those she sees as behaving incorrectly. I see her trying to give her kids as much freedom as she is able, as she has no real freedom herself, and only stepping in to use corrective measures (execution, seizure of assets, whatever) when they abuse that freedom. She understands better than most that the Dragonblooded working together are nigh-invincible...but she remembers the fall of the Shogunate, that hundreds of little warring fiefdoms, and the officers who tried to seize power after she saved the world, and she knows better than most that her children will naturally fight one another for power unless she is there to play referee and to keep things from getting out of hand. She knows a civil war is the inevitable result of her death, and that naming an heir publicly would just make it a shadow war of assassination and intrigue rather than an over tone. She does everything she can to protect her children from each other, starting with the early assassination attempt on her daughter by her son: the goal of her statement was to show that her children must live or die as one, and that they cannot use their ambition and their position to justify betraying one another, not that she loves Mnemon more.

                        In my Creation, Big Red can't necessarily be blackmailed by threatening her kids, but she does take their interests into consideration when making important decisions. She loves the little vipers.


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                        • #13
                          The Empress has been around for 700 years. She's had lots of kids and she has outlived most of them. I would be surprised if she got attached much to her children these days.

                          Of her kids though, Mnemon is the most successful, and just about the oldest. There probably aren't many people in the Realm who can personally remember things that happened 500 years ago and have discussions with her about those events.

                          So I imagine that the Empress probably appreciates Mnemon above just about anyone else in the Realm.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post
                            The Empress has been around for 700 years. She's had lots of kids and she has outlived most of them. I would be surprised if she got attached much to her children these days.

                            Of her kids though, Mnemon is the most successful, and just about the oldest. There probably aren't many people in the Realm who can personally remember things that happened 500 years ago and have discussions with her about those events.

                            So I imagine that the Empress probably appreciates Mnemon above just about anyone else in the Realm.
                            Honestly, I'm not sure why the game says Ragara is even still around if they are going to write him off as a senile old lump of fail who was never as awesome as Mnemon anyway and never managed to unlock the secrets of longevity his mother and sister did.


                            Exalted Whose Name is Carved in Leaves of Jade

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                            • #15
                              Yeah, I never really saw the point of Ragara either.

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