Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Mnemon and the Empress's feeling toward each other ?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by HaplessWithDice View Post
    The Pink Princess
    *Adds that to her list of Mnemon nicknames along with Little Red.*


    Onyx Path Forum Moderator
    Please spare a thought for updating the Exalted wiki.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Mizu View Post

      Honestly, I'm not sure why the game says Ragara is even still around if they are going to write him off as a senile old lump of fail
      I would say that living to the age of about six hundred and having what might be the second most powerful House in the Realm suggests he was doing something right.

      Unless he's a "lump of fail" on account of having to suffer through the disgusting indignity of old age?

      Originally posted by Mizu
      who was never as awesome as Mnemon anyway and never managed to unlock the secrets of longevity his mother and sister did.
      What makes you think he's not as good as Mnemon? The fact that she saw through his attempt to kill her? How many attempts to kill him do you think he saw through? Hell, how many times is it likely that he protected Sesus and Mnemon after it was made publically apparent that their deaths would be put on him disregarding all circumstances?

      Ragara might not have unlocked any secrets to longevity, since not everybody can be a sorceror, but it would seem fairly in fitting with his House for him to have purchased them. Who's to say that whatever Mnemon has will last her so long? Besides, if the Scarlet Empress was living off of something she had on account of being a Celestial Sorceror, it would be literally impossible for Ragara to unlock it, wouldn't you say?


      I have approximate knowledge of many things.
      Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
      https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

      Comment


      • #18
        It always felt a little pointless to have Ragara be a character in the setting and then present him as a senile, unimportant figure. The only thing I can think of that he ever really did was die in a boating accident in 1st edition Alchemicals.

        I just wish they had presented him in a more competent light (as of Year Zero), old yes, but still wily, in charge of his House and plotting for the upcoming civil war. The one time I used him a game, that's how I had him; a secret puppetmaster who was only faking his infirmity in order to throw off his rivals.

        Comment


        • #19
          Ragara is important because he shows that sometimes, the Head of a House just gets old and retires, leaving his descendants in charge; just because there are people older than you in your family doesn't necessarily mean they're the boss. Sometimes old grandpa Ragara just retires in a house in the countryside and enjoys his last few years in peace.

          Also precisely because it shows that even Exalts grow old, with all that implies.

          He pretty much exists to show that the Scarlet Dynasty is not Vampire: the Masquerade.


          Bits and pieces of Exalted setting.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Gensh View Post
            I've always framed the Empress' struggle as one against public perception. It's very likely that she doesn't actually want to be the utterly ruthless tyrant she is, but she has to maintain that appearance in order to stay untouchable. The instant she shows weakness, schisms will form in the Realm, possibly leading to a cascade failure that leaves Creation unable to defend itself from the Thousand Dooms.
            That just doesn't make sense. Or, more precisely, it might have made sense early in her reign, but it hasn't made sense for centuries. It implies she literally has no control at all over any aspect of her Empire. No non-Sidereals exist from her early period. No one alive hasn't known life without her. She's effectively a geographical feature for the Realm. If one act of not-setting-fire-to-a-kitten is all that stands between her and total Realm implosion, then she had to have been actively destroying her own empire since the get-go. The full-bore uber-tyrant is something driven by insecurity and instability. A stable, vibrant polity leads to a ruler who can be as affable as he or she likes - and the fact that she is all everyone has ever known means she has been free to shape everyone's idea of what is right and proper from scratch. It takes a special, rare sociopath to decide on gratuitous Rome-burning in times of plenty. So unless you posit all DBs are straight up Sith Lords by genetic inevitability, the vast majority of her government should be relatively stable and loyal. Note that I didn't say they were not amibitious, nor that there were not power-hungry fools among them, nor that she was some bubble-headed Pollyanna; but the idea that a small Dynast child wanders out from the Imperial Apartments, states "Nana gave be a cookie", and suddenly 10,000 DBs all immediately shout "Time to burn this motherfucker down!" is absurd.

            And I blame the presentation of the Empress and the Realm. She acts like the sort of openly psychotic paranoid schizophrenic that have famously short, unstable, and disastrous polities. Yet she's been on the throne for centuries and the Realm is both stable and prosperous (let's be honest, if after five years of no effective rule by anyone - coupled with what is outright described as EIC-levels of embezzlement by the Dynasts - your empire is just now getting to the point that some administrative ministries are sort of short on white-out, you have an absurdly stable and prosperous empire). If she ruled with the sort of gleefully tyrannical randomness described, her Realm should have been known as the 20 Year Dumpster Fire, Sword of Creation or no. The Realm should be having problems because of a malaise driven by losing its raison d'etre, not because Mrs. Dr. The Pol Pot didn't torture a family member at breakfast.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
              Mnemon is a sociopathic narcissist
              I feel like this is kind of reductive...but I'm sure the canon portrayal of her does not help.


              "Chicanery-No: If a player uses this Charm in an abusive or exploitative manner, the ST may punch him right in the goddamn face." --TheDementedOne

              "Happiness is very brittle and short-lived in the Exalted community, because ressentiment is our cultural touchstone." --Gayo

              Comment


              • #22
                I've always viewed the Empress as a product of the needs of Creation (at least at first) and later as the needs of the Empire. When she used the Sword of Creation to end the Balorian Crusade, it was because she had no other options to stop the Fey armies. Later when she took control of the Realm and used the Sword to force other Shogunate forces to yield to her command, it was the quickest and least costly way to get Creation back on its feet. She allowed made her deal with Chejop Kejak and the Immaculate Order, because their sponsorship strengthened her claim to the throne and prevented another civil war. She treated her children the way an Empress should (at least in her mind). Of course she loved them all, including Mnemon, but the Empire must always come first. She insured they all received the best education, provided for their every need, and insured each had a place and important function within the Realm. That was all she could do. Would she sacrifice one or even several to save the Empire? Yes, she'd do it without a second thought. She would mourn them at least privately, but she would not regret it. This is my view of her Redness.

                How I've always explained her disappearance (forget the RotSE crap) was that she left on her own. She's reached the limit to her life extension and will now age as fast as a mortal. Since I've kinda viewed her as early 30s, she only has a couple of decades left in her. She needed to see if the Realm could hold it together and work things out if she dies without an apparent heir (worst-case scenario). She's traveling around Creation, but always keeps an eye and ear on what is happening in the Empire. I like this as it leaves numerous options open for the fate of the Realm and Big Red.

                As for Mnemon, she is every bit her mother's daughter. She loves and respects her mother, but the Empire must come first. The one difference here is, Mnemon truly believes she is the best candidate to replace her mother, and no one (not even Big Red herself) will convince her otherwise. Her mothers rule was sufficient, and hers will be as well. She'd like it if her siblings and the other DBs understood and accepted this. If not, well then it's in the best interest of the Realm that they disappear leaving no voices of contention. She to would grieve if she had to "deal" with V'Neef, but she would not regret it one bit!


                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by phalamir View Post
                  And I blame the presentation of the Empress and the Realm. She acts like the sort of openly psychotic paranoid schizophrenic that have famously short, unstable, and disastrous polities. Yet she's been on the throne for centuries and the Realm is both stable and prosperous (let's be honest, if after five years of no effective rule by anyone - coupled with what is outright described as EIC-levels of embezzlement by the Dynasts - your empire is just now getting to the point that some administrative ministries are sort of short on white-out, you have an absurdly stable and prosperous empire). If she ruled with the sort of gleefully tyrannical randomness described, her Realm should have been known as the 20 Year Dumpster Fire, Sword of Creation or no. The Realm should be having problems because of a malaise driven by losing its raison d'etre, not because Mrs. Dr. The Pol Pot didn't torture a family member at breakfast.
                  Yeah it's like she's in the first act of one of Shakespeare's plays...but for some inexplicable reason she stuck there and never moved on to the second and third acts where people start dying right and left, and she too eventually implodes in a fireball of self-loathing and contempt...

                  All this may just be a symptom of Exalted's over explanation of its world. In most fantasy settings you would just be told that there is a powerful eternal empress who has ruled for a millenia, but Exalted tries to explain exactly how she held power for all those years and every last social and political dynamic as well. The problem is the more you try to find logic in a illogical mythical history the more obvious the plot holes become.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by phalamir View Post
                    And I blame the presentation of the Empress and the Realm. She acts like the sort of openly psychotic paranoid schizophrenic that have famously short, unstable, and disastrous polities. Yet she's been on the throne for centuries and the Realm is both stable and prosperous (let's be honest, if after five years of no effective rule by anyone - coupled with what is outright described as EIC-levels of embezzlement by the Dynasts - your empire is just now getting to the point that some administrative ministries are sort of short on white-out, you have an absurdly stable and prosperous empire). If she ruled with the sort of gleefully tyrannical randomness described, her Realm should have been known as the 20 Year Dumpster Fire, Sword of Creation or no. The Realm should be having problems because of a malaise driven by losing its raison d'etre, not because Mrs. Dr. The Pol Pot didn't torture a family member at breakfast.
                    I do agree with you, but since players tend to come to the game expecting you haven't changed the canon, I try to make do with what's there. I justify the standing conceits by making everything absurdly cloak-and-dagger. The DBs don't all have to be Sith Lords - it only took one to undermine the Galactic Republic, after all. Red's relative paranoia is in relation to a mere handful of DBs and Sids, plus an unknown number of Lunar infiltrators. She's survived the Contagion and the Crusade, played mind games with the Green Sun, and almost certainly knows as much of Creation's true history as any human younger than Kejak. All it takes is for one idiot to catch her off-guard and injure her just enough to weaken the loyalty of more idiots, and then the whole thing starts to collapse in on itself, with all the monsters at the edges of the world ready to pounce. And that includes Kejak as well.

                    This is my explanation for her implied obsession with immortality. If she can recover from any injury, then she can finally let her hair down. And that's a lot of hair.


                    I'm working on it, all right?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by turkeygiant View Post
                      The problem is the more you try to find logic in a illogical mythical history the more obvious the plot holes become.
                      See, I don't think the basic premise of Eternal Queen of Giant Empire has plot holes. I don't think the basic description of the Empire as a place has plot holes. It is the administration that is the problem. It is a mishmash of every bad governing idea of every tinpot dictator ever - all overseen by a leader who publicly and gleefully twirls her mustache like Snidely Whiplash on PCP. Realm administration is a minigame of Paranoia bolted on for no other reason than someone decided The Big Book of Bad Governing Decisions was a how-to manual.

                      Also, since PCs can be part of the Realm, you kinda have to explain its workings in some detail
                      Last edited by phalamir; 01-22-2015, 02:29 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Gensh View Post
                        The DBs don't all have to be Sith Lords - it only took one to undermine the Galactic Republic, after all.
                        In a story by George Lucas - who could take writing lessons from Midwestern tweens writing Kirby/Hercules slash while high on shrooms. Compared to _that_ trilogy, the 2e Realm is a precise and exactingly accurate description of weather-monitoring station protocols for Kansas.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Vaguely off-topic, but two things!
                          Originally posted by phalamir View Post
                          It is the administration that is the problem. It is a mishmash of every bad governing idea of every tinpot dictator ever - all overseen by a leader who publicly and gleefully twirls her mustache like Snidely Whiplash on PCP. Realm administration is a minigame of Paranoia bolted on for no other reason than someone decided The Big Book of Bad Governing Decisions was a how-to manual.

                          Also, since PCs can be part of the Realm, you kinda have to explain its workings in some detail
                          Could you go into a bit more detail on this point? If/when I run a Realm game, it would be helpful to have guidelines on what in canon is better to throw out and what is better to keep, and what should be kept for a comedy session.

                          Originally posted by phalamir View Post
                          Midwestern tweens writing Kirby/Hercules slash while high on shrooms.
                          Who told you about The Strongest Sucking? (It is my secret shame!)

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Guancyto View Post

                            Could you go into a bit more detail on this point? If/when I run a Realm game, it would be helpful to have guidelines on what in canon is better to throw out and what is better to keep, and what should be kept for a comedy session.
                            Well, the problem is that the ills that drive the game are the stuff that makes no sense, so leaving out the crap pretty much neuters anything resembling a canon game. The stuff on daily life in the Realm, general province descriptions, and stuff about peripheral organizations (the secondary schools, the Immaculate monks, the Lost Eggs, etc.) is reasonably good and describes a rather powerful, successful, and prosperous empire; and some parts of the Thousand Scales are fine. But the rest of the TS and everything about the Houses and MI5/6 is ... hoo boy! The rule of thumb is "if this sounds like something they lifted wholesale from Stalin/Hitler/Pinochet/Kim Jong Un/Gargamel then we're getting into nonsensical". But, like I said without the S/H/P/KJU/G stuff, the Realm would just be humming along while some people are going through a rather contentious probate fight. So it really isn't a fixable problem - kinda like Siddie Charms.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Once upon a time, there was a little man called Ivan Vasilyevich. Ivan didn't really get along with his courtiers; they were corrupt, treacherous, embezzled money, and he was pretty sure they poisoned his beloved first wife. Eventually, Ivan abdicated his throne in protest at their excesses, but this did not bring relief to a nobility that had taken to trying to do things their own way. Ivan, it turned out, was very popular among the common people, and the nobles turned out to be wholly incompetent at administration. Facing a revolt, they begged their monarch to resume his throne, and Ivan agreed to do so, only if they would give him absolute power, particularly the right to execute nobles and confiscate their property with no oversight whatsoever. The nobility agreed. Thus began an extended reign of persecution and terror inflicted against the nobility by a specialized class of secret police, who were based on confiscated lands, continuing for the better part of a decade. Ivan never again really faced much in the way of serious internal opposition, and led his lands through a series of successful expansions, and innovative social and economic reforms. He died of a stroke.

                              The Scarlet Empress is not nearly so outlandish.
                              Last edited by Isator Levi; 01-23-2015, 06:58 AM.


                              I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                              Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                              https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                                Once upon a time, there was a little man called Ivan Vasilyevich. Ivan didn't really get along with his courtiers; they were corrupt, treacherous, embezzled money, and he was pretty sure they poisoned his beloved first wife. Eventually, Ivan abdicated his throne in protest at their excesses, but this did not bring relief to a nobility that had taken to trying to do things their own way. Ivan, it turned out, was very popular among the common people, and the nobles turned out to be wholly incompetent at administration. Facing a revolt, they begged their monarch to resume his throne, and Ivan agreed to do so, only if they would give him absolute power, particularly the right to execute nobles and confiscate their property with no oversight whatsoever. The nobility agreed. Thus began an extended reign of persecution and terror inflicted against the nobility by a specialized class of secret police, who were based on confiscated lands, continuing for the better part of a decade. Ivan never again really faced much in the way of serious internal opposition, and led his lands through a series of successful expansions, and innovative social and economic reforms. He died of a stroke. The Scarlet Empress is not nearly so outlandish.
                                The Scarlet Empress is "continuing for 700+ years". I would also point out Ivan's dynasty went tits up after one more ruler. Psycho, paranoid, murderous chucklehead has never been a long-term solution. Psycho, paranoid, murderous chucklehead for most of a millenium does not create a stable, prosperous state.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X