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Malfeas Dancing, Like it or dislike it

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Sakii View Post
    what inconsistency does dual fetich fix on theion?

    Originally posted by nalak42 View Post
    Really, that was the contradiction? I'd just assumed that Ligier wasn't the fetich until Malfeas became Malfeas. I mean that's how the fetich deaths worked wasn't it? The primodial had its fetich permakilled and something happened that caused the primordial to shatter( possibly the fetich death itself possibly something else the Primordial wars were a busy time after all.) Then the Primordial reconfigured itself with one of its other third circles as the new fetich. Or is there something I got wrong that prevents Ligier existing until after proto-Malfeas becomes Malfeas, or something like that?
    Back in First Edition, Ligier had always been Malfeas fetich, and Malfeas had never actually suffered fetich death. His body had been turned inside out due to the surrender oaths, but his fetich (Ligier) had never been killed. However somewhere along the line in 2nd edition, some writer hadn't understood that and had written that Malfeas had, in fact, suffered fetich death as part of his surrender. But that contradicted a lot of info about Ligier and how he had been around before the Primordial War.

    So Neph came up with the idea that Malfeas had had two fetich souls, Ligier and some other one, and it had been that other fetich that been killed. Which was admittedly awkward, yeah, but it was probably the best way to reconcile these three "facts" which the gameline had presented - that Ligier was Malfeas' fetich, that Ligier had been around prior to the Primordial War, and that new bit, that Malfeas had suffered fetich death at the end of the war.
    Last edited by AnubisXy; 02-06-2015, 02:04 AM.

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    • #47
      I didn't mind the dual fetich souls until it manifested as a fixation on Ruvelia as a tragic figure, particularly from the 'the Exalted were the worst thing to happen to Creation' camp.


      Onyx Path Forums Moderator

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Jen View Post

        I'm pretty sure this is not canon.
        Like I said that's how I understand the process. Was trying to figure out if there was something I was missing.
        Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post
        Back in First Edition, Ligier had always been Malfeas fetich, and Malfeas had never actually suffered fetich death. His body had been turned inside out due to the surrender oaths, but his fetich (Ligier) had never been killed. However somewhere along the line in 2nd edition, some writer hadn't understood that and had written that Malfeas had, in fact, suffered fetich death as part of his surrender. But that contradicted a lot of info about Ligier and how he had been around before the Primordial War.

        So Neph came up with the idea that Malfeas had had two fetich souls, Ligier and some other one, and it had been that other fetich that been killed. Which was admittedly awkward, yeah, but it was probably the best way to reconcile these three "facts" which the gameline had presented - that Ligier was Malfeas' fetich, that Ligier had been around prior to the Primordial War, and that new bit, that Malfeas had suffered fetich death at the end of the war.
        Oh so that's how it worked.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Yishten View Post
          what is perceptibly different between a city quaking and what Malfeas-as-city might do that would qualify the perception as "dancing?" What so different from normal whirring that would perceptibly qualify as "singing?"
          Somewhere between "the artistry of it" and "the fact that we know these are living beings, so the motions and mechanics of them should be viewed with that terminology rather than with the terms applied to inanimate objects".

          It's also the same with how the streets and buildings of Malfeas are his flesh and bones, or how the pipes and cables of Autochthon are his nerves and arteries.

          I'd also say it's on a similar plane to the difference between a piece of bread or wafer and the body of Jesus Christ, depending on one's theology.



          I have approximate knowledge of many things.
          Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
          https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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          • #50
            i think ligier disapproving of malfeas dancing represents the fact that malfeas,subconsciously thinks that he has no right at all to be happy given that he failed his subjects (and his role) so utterly. also i doubt ligier minds malfeas being nude. ligier never wears a shirt after all

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            • #51
              2 year thread necromancy. Nice!
              I think we can all do with more boogying demon kings. I know I can.


              "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

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              • #52
                Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                2 year thread necromancy. Nice!
                I think we can all do with more boogying demon kings. I know I can.
                wow. i did not even notice the thread had been dead.

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                • #53
                  Hold up! Is this some Necromancy? In Malfeas?

                  Sorry but it's probably been around two years since the last time I had an excuse to post that.

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                  • #54
                    To respond to the first post, I think the Jen thing kinda summarizes things to me. In the original thing in Games of Divinity, dancing and music is just something the Yozis do. There's no real moral value or even say of pride or hate. Because theya ll do it and it is the only thing htey seem to do that makes them happy. The entire basis of there being a special Brass Dancer is because someone in 2e read a throw-away line in that same book that was supposed to evoke paradoxical statments and took it too literally.

                    I think it also in a weird way just kind of feels randomly tacked-onto Liger. He seems to like Hell just fine as it is, and is more focused on that. Part of Hell is the dance and music of the titans. So in a way, it also feels just not-fitting with that interpretation. And as others said already, it's kind of a "too on th enose" thing of a guy hating himself, as well as I think overly Primordial-focused too. LIke, in the end what does it matter what Ligier things of Malfeas' behavior? What does he actually, like, do or care about that affects PCs more?


                    And stuff.
                    Made signature by moderator request. Any actual typing of "And stuff." is out of habitual reflex.

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                    • #55
                      How bout other ancient evilscdancing?

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Blaque View Post
                        LIke, in the end what does it matter what Ligier things of Malfeas' behavior? What does he actually, like, do or care about that affects PCs more?
                        As I said earlier in the thread, it was basically one brief sentence that shed some light on the relationship between Ligier and Malfeas, and in turn suggests the sort of relationships that other Yozi can have with their Fetiches. That the relationship between a Yozi and their Feitch is complicated, and even the Fetich of a Yozi can feel disappointment in the actions of their Primordial creator. And I think it makes sense that Ligier, who is constantly referred to as noble, would feels a bit of shame when he sees Malfeas acting in an undisciplined, ignoble and base manner. And it also makes sense that Malfeas would want to try to live up to the standards that Ligier sets for him and tries to avoid acting in ways that aren't befitting to his status as King of the Universe.

                        Now is it useful to know that Fetiches and Yozi can have difficult relationships with one another, that Fetiches can sometimes feel ashamed of the actions of a Yozi and that a Yozi might respect their Feitch enough to act in certain ways? Maybe. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing to know especially since you got all of this in less than 20 words. There have been many, many, many worse uses of sentences in Exalted's line than that.

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                        • #57
                          I think an issue I have a bit with Ligier having that particular feeling is this: What is ignoble about Malfeas dancing when all the Yozis are dancers? That he feels shame towards it begs a question that it is behavior that's shameful. Which to me seems odd at least again in general context of things when dancing and such is a thing that the Yozis as a whole do and it might be something they did before they were in Hell. That's a bit that also kind of weirds me out about it some. It takes an aspect that was a pretty I think evocative bit of the Yozis and tosses it out for some kind of forced idea of what is noble/stoic that seems tied to what we as humans think than maybe the makers of the world think it would be.

                          It also is a bit I think overly inward-facing. I think the relationshipb etween a Yozi and its souls is to some some extent nto really important since the Yozis shouldn't be important save as enviornments and soruces of demons. It's important I guess in the sense my house or city has a personality or feel to it, but I think that how much it talks in his original wirte-up Ligier thinks Hell as it is is pretty awesome and the probelm with Creation is that it's not more like Hell, implies to me a different entire vibe with a behavior of his Yozi that all the other Yozi do and seems just a normal part of Hell being Hell is something to be ashamed of.


                          And stuff.
                          Made signature by moderator request. Any actual typing of "And stuff." is out of habitual reflex.

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                          • #58
                            Well, this is my former group of player's view on Malfeas and his dancing. He's awesome at it and can carry a tune while doing it.
                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo4XXm8OUP4


                            I used to be Median but life has made me Mean.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Blaque View Post
                              To respond to the first post, I think the Jen thing kinda summarizes things to me. In the original thing in Games of Divinity, dancing and music is just something the Yozis do. There's no real moral value or even say of pride or hate. Because theya ll do it and it is the only thing htey seem to do that makes them happy. The entire basis of there being a special Brass Dancer is because someone in 2e read a throw-away line in that same book that was supposed to evoke paradoxical statments and took it too literally.

                              I think it also in a weird way just kind of feels randomly tacked-onto Liger. He seems to like Hell just fine as it is, and is more focused on that. Part of Hell is the dance and music of the titans. So in a way, it also feels just not-fitting with that interpretation. And as others said already, it's kind of a "too on th enose" thing of a guy hating himself, as well as I think overly Primordial-focused too. LIke, in the end what does it matter what Ligier things of Malfeas' behavior? What does he actually, like, do or care about that affects PCs more?
                              I agree with all the above.

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                              • #60
                                Broadly speaking I like the idea. It speaks in its own way about how different the actual structure I think of Creation is. That when building Creation things like music and dance were written into its very nature and design as true a facet of reality as gravity is.

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