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Incest in Exalted

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  • #16
    Originally posted by MaxAstro View Post
    I think a more relevant question is perhaps "Does exaltation purge you of any genetic disorders you are suffering because of incest?".

    Considering that the Dragon-Blooded still exist in a reasonably sane state - and please, read the 100/9900 origin story of the Dragon-Blooded, think about the fact that Dragon-Blooded only bred with each other, and then consider just how much incest was likely going on - I think the answer is probably "yes", at least to some extent.

    Also I think the Realm is more fun if you inject a lot of messy European monarchy flaws into it, especially with the huge emphasis on purity of bloodline the great houses have.
    I'd rather not. thanks. Especially since, by all indications, it's going by the wayside and won't be a part of EX3.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
      By all indications, it does, though..
      where? I'm not being condesending, I seriously want to know where it mentions a genetic disorder in the books, or genetics as being a thing. I'm not picky I'm fine with it just being an example of making new animals with a method outside of craft genesis. Like mortals breeding mules or something

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      • #18
        Breeding animals for expression of particular traits (which exists in-setting) would be an example of effectively a form of genetic engineering, and happened IRL long before the notions of "DNA" and "genes" were conceived.


        "Chicanery-No: If a player uses this Charm in an abusive or exploitative manner, the ST may punch him right in the goddamn face." --TheDementedOne

        "Happiness is very brittle and short-lived in the Exalted community, because ressentiment is our cultural touchstone." --Gayo

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Zelbinnean View Post
          Breeding animals for expression of particular traits (which exists in-setting) would be an example of effectively a form of genetic engineering, and happened IRL long before the notions of "DNA" and "genes" were conceived.
          right, just asking for examples of this in exalted is all

          I mean where does it say this is done

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Aeroz View Post
            right, just asking for examples of this in exalted is all
            1. Are you seriously claiming this doesn't exist in Exalted because it's not explicitly written?
            2. It's in the Thaumaturgical Art of Animal Husbandry if anywhere, and it's definitely stupid to make "I breed hunting dogs really well" an offshoot of Occult, but it's there. One can extrapolate to other living things as needed.


            "Chicanery-No: If a player uses this Charm in an abusive or exploitative manner, the ST may punch him right in the goddamn face." --TheDementedOne

            "Happiness is very brittle and short-lived in the Exalted community, because ressentiment is our cultural touchstone." --Gayo

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post

              I'd rather not. thanks. Especially since, by all indications, it's going by the wayside and won't be a part of EX3.
              Oh, thank Luna.

              I definitely had a moment of "did the people who wrote this actually think about what they hell they were writing?" when I read that particular... gem.

              So in that case, my argument is likely somewhat invalid. EX3: Now with 10,000% less Dragon-Blooded incest! That said, I think Murcushio has a great point... and I am sigging that quote, because I almost fell out of my chair laughing.


              Murcushio: Sure, you avoid all that messy withdrawal, but you still need to stop doing heroin (for the purposes of this discussion your cousin is named Heroin).

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Aeroz View Post

                where? I'm not being condesending, I seriously want to know where it mentions a genetic disorder in the books, or genetics as being a thing. I'm not picky I'm fine with it just being an example of making new animals with a method outside of craft genesis. Like mortals breeding mules or something
                The notion that they wouldn't, given the existence of real world diseases with real-world causes, is rather mind-boggling. Like, I can't even fathom why you would imagine that inherited difficulties wouldn't exist in Creation, except perhaps maybe by being knocked way off course by the disease section of the 2e core. It kind of reminds me of Holden's "A vagina is a vagina, not a Cave of Wonders" clarification.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Aeroz View Post
                  right, just asking for examples of this in exalted is all
                  How about those cats they breed on the Blessed Isle that are supernaturally warm? The ones they neuter before selling because they might pass on the traits for which they are valued to their offspring if allowed to breed?

                  Or how about the Lintha, where they ritually castrate themselves before being allowed to leave Bluehaven, so as not to mingle Lintha blood with mortal? Being Lintha is certainly not expressed as a communicable disease spread by proximity to a Lintha, it's passed down by fucking.

                  How about all those folks with the weird hair color, where it's a result of ancestors breeding with gods and elementals? That is quite explicitly a trait that is passed down.

                  Or the children of Dragon-Blooded having better odds of Exalting than Joe Farmer from Bugfuck Nowhere?

                  Frankly there's an orgy of evidence that things are passed down genetically.
                  Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 02-25-2015, 01:32 AM.

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                  • #24
                    It's very applicable to a Bronze Age milliu for the royalty of relatively large states to inbreed. The Egyptian Pharaohs did it all the time. Tutankhamun had birth defects and after marrying his sister, they couldn't manage to have kids at all. Said incest was brother and sister marrying, repeatedly for several generations, not just second cousins.

                    Originally posted by Zelbinnean View Post
                    Breeding animals for expression of particular traits (which exists in-setting) would be an example of effectively a form of genetic engineering, and happened IRL long before the notions of "DNA" and "genes" were conceived.
                    Not genetic engineering. It's (micro)-evolution by artificial selection.

                    And isn't Gaia supposed to understand natural selection, or somesuch? If anyone could craft Exalted to not have lots of inherited disorder problems, Gaia probably could. But humans in general were created by the Primordials (until authors explicitly say otherwise) and I doubt they put much care into ironing out problems that were no inconvenience to them.


                    I am extremely literal-minded and always write very literally. If I don't say something explicitly, please never assume I implied it. The only exception is if I try to joke.
                    Exalted and cWoD book list. Exalted name-generators, Infernal and 1E-2.5E homebrew from many authors.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
                      How about those cats they breed on the Blessed Isle that are supernaturally warm? The ones they neuter before selling because they might pass on the traits for which they are valued to their offspring if allowed to breed?
                      They are unnaturally warm, so I'd conclude its likely the result of magical fiddling not selective breeding.
                      Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post

                      Or how about the Lintha, where they ritually castrate themselves before being allowed to leave Bluehaven, so as not to mingle Lintha blood with mortal? Being Lintha is certainly not expressed as a communicable disease spread by proximity to a Lintha, it's passed down by fucking.

                      How about all those folks with the weird hair color, where it's a result of ancestors breeding with gods and elementals? That is quite explicitly a trait that is passed down.

                      Or the children of Dragon-Blooded having better odds of Exalting than Joe Farmer from Bugfuck Nowhere?

                      Frankly there's an orgy of evidence that things are passed down genetically.
                      This is passing on essence specifically. Unless you mean to imply that the yozi, specifically a yozi thats an acid ocean, actually has genes.

                      If you want to say with mortals under mundane circumstances genes are a determining factor fine, but I doubt there is a "god gene" that gives people the ability to breath fire. That when you exalt Sol alters your DNA so you pass on esoteric magical powers to your kids.

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                      • #26
                        Aeroz, "just asking" is... well it's a thing that happens, anyway, but are you being intentionally dim or are you just really determined to set up a Creation where people won't ostracize you for banging your relatives?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Aeroz View Post
                          They are unnaturally warm, so I'd conclude its likely the result of magical fiddling not selective breeding.
                          How exactly do you explain magical fiddling passing through successive generations if not for the concept of inherited traits? This is truly absurd and I cannot believe it's controversial.

                          Thanks for totally ignoring my point on Art of Husbandry which is explicitly about selective breeding, btw. It's stupid that it's in Occult but the mechanics in it don't really matter - the concept of it clearly exists and that concept is based on genetics, whether or not the term "genetics" or the deep understanding of it exists.


                          "Chicanery-No: If a player uses this Charm in an abusive or exploitative manner, the ST may punch him right in the goddamn face." --TheDementedOne

                          "Happiness is very brittle and short-lived in the Exalted community, because ressentiment is our cultural touchstone." --Gayo

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                          • #28
                            Yeah, count me in the "Creation has genetics or something like it" camp.

                            I mean... physical laws in Creation clearly have different underpinnings. Physics in particular takes one look at Creation and runs away weeping. But basic stuff has always seemed to have a Creation-equivalant. That equivalent is sometimes "the Loom does it" rather than a long scientific proof paper on Mendelian inheritance, but the end result is the same.


                            "SEX NOVA is the kind of person who, after being chosen as the divine champion of the god of heroes, decided to call himself SEX NOVA."

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                            • #29
                              It is inevitable because of their penchant for genetic purity. I'm sure they dont encourage couplings between direct siblings, but 1st cousins on down the line would be fair game.

                              And Terrestriala would never have to worry about their offspring having genetic mutations due to too much inbreeding. The potency of the Essences takes care of that problem. (Though the unexalted relatives might have to consider it, which makes it prudent to pair up an unexalted relative with an Exalted one to prevent mutation.)

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Zelbinnean View Post
                                (I'm thinking of some nation from the Belgariad).
                                The Arendish royal family did that because of some weird inheritance issue.

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