Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Mnemon doesn't want to be Old: How about Immortality ?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Mnemon doesn't want to be Old: How about Immortality ?



    ~Do you see definitely-not-Mnemon a young lady, or definitely-not-Mnemon an old hag~

    "Nyoro~n"

    The Empress is Confused. Help her answer the riddle to receive a Royal Gift !



    I wonder what will happen to the Stone of Immortality, the Lunar time den charm, Abyssal's undead-ness and Exalted's life expectancy in general. Yeah, your campaign will rarely last that long and the character probably won't die from old age most of the time, but the idea of your Exalted character not being to live forever is...is....kinda like a small color spill in a picture, don't really that much in the grand scheme of thing, but everytime you look at the picture (i.e playing the game), that color spill just stare like a smugly at you, and "Your character gonna die from old age baaaah" is what the color spill said to you !

    Since we are in a thread about Immortality, can sorcerous project be used to grant immortality or restore youth to a mortal, since most method in the past isn't very compelling at all (I hate committing motes !).


    The no.1 fan of Demetheus. I also draw Exalted things and is looking for commission works ~

  • #2
    We had things like anagathics which could reduce your age. We also had unnamed Sorcery-shannigans that could slow aging. In Third Edition that definitely sounds like some sort of Sorcerous Working, though I imagine that true immortality would be really, really hard to accomplish, though it probably shouldn't be impossible.

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm sure sorcerous workings can be used to extend a person's life and/or youth. It's a staple of the pulp magic that the system is said to be based on, after all.


      Currently writing for Exigents.

      Comment


      • #4
        Yeah, they've made some comments that sorcerous workings are definitely an option for extending one's lifespan. Simply one that, like other sorcerous workings, isn't exactly cheap. Lucky for Mnemon that she's a ruthless sorcerous master and one of the wealthiest individuals in the world's richest empire.

        Holden also observed that, much as Akuma aren't around as a unified thing, Exalts can still "make questionable bargains with questionable beings for various reasons." An extended life/youth is just a classic component of that sort of Faustian bargain.


        The EX3 What We Know Wiki, courtesy of Marin and JMobius
        Nishkriya, the EX3 Freelancer Quotes Tracker, courtesy of Anathema and Moonwolf
        The White Wolf Forum Archive, courtesy of The Dark Wizard and Sanctaphrax (see its Patreon)
        Arrghus: There's also the Shepherd of the North Star, busily guiding the one thing in all the heavens that doesn't move.

        Comment


        • #5
          Does it really bother people that their PCs aren't immortal? Given that even Terrestrials will still be around for hundreds of years (barring accident or murder) after gameplay starts, and Celestials much longer, why should that really matter *to the player*?

          In mixed WoD campaigns, is the Werewolf player bothered that her PC won't live as long as the Vampire or Mummy PC in the game?

          The real problem with the Stone of Immortality and other means of living forever are the narrative effects it has on certain setting-defining NPCs such things would make a difference for. The Scarlet Empress is in her position explicitly because she was chasing immortality, but it seems that getting/creating the Stone probably shouldn't be beyond her means. The Bronze Faction offered Chejop a Stone, and he refused it, which seems out of character to me, given his desperate need to overwork himself to get everything done in the limited time he has left; but they could give it to Cainan, as his limited lifespan is stated to be the only obstacle to the Bronze making him Scarlet Emperor.

          And if sorcerous workings can extend the lifespan, presumably even they are limited in that they also cannot extend Sidereals' time...unless 3E is getting rid of that bit of nonsense.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Hand-of-Omega View Post
            Does it really bother people that their PCs aren't immortal? Given that even Terrestrials will still be around for hundreds of years (barring accident or murder) after gameplay starts, and Celestials much longer, why should that really matter *to the player*?
            I think a lot of what made people bothered about mortality in Exalted was the general feeling the setting descriptions gave, that the instant your PCs looked elsewhere it would all go to shit again, because it was almost entirely populated by destructive assholes that'd tear down anything you built if you weren't there personally to smack them upside the head. If people get the feeling that their works and mark in the world will survive their characters, they're usually okay with their characters dying.

            Comment


            • #7
              I'm much happier with sorceries that need to be worked or arcane potions with exotic ingredients or extreme, specific training regimens that must constantly be followed as anagathics versus something passive, easy, and boring like a hearthstone.


              "Chicanery-No: If a player uses this Charm in an abusive or exploitative manner, the ST may punch him right in the goddamn face." --TheDementedOne

              "Happiness is very brittle and short-lived in the Exalted community, because ressentiment is our cultural touchstone." --Gayo

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Drascin View Post
                I think a lot of what made people bothered about mortality in Exalted was the general feeling the setting descriptions gave, that the instant your PCs looked elsewhere it would all go to shit again, because it was almost entirely populated by destructive assholes that'd tear down anything you built if you weren't there personally to smack them upside the head. If people get the feeling that their works and mark in the world will survive their characters, they're usually okay with their characters dying.
                This is very true.

                But still, for both Celestials and Terrestrials I think old age is one of the less likely causes of death. Even before the Usurpation, the Exalted killed each other a lot.


                I am extremely literal-minded and always write very literally. If I don't say something explicitly, please never assume I implied it. The only exception is if I try to joke.
                Exalted name-generators, Infernal and 1E-2.5E homebrew from many authors

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Erinys View Post

                  This is very true.

                  But still, for both Celestials and Terrestrials I think old age is one of the less likely causes of death. Even before the Usurpation, the Exalted killed each other a lot.
                  Say, do we have any canon Exalted who die from old age ? I don't quite remember how Saibok Gauto die.


                  The no.1 fan of Demetheus. I also draw Exalted things and is looking for commission works ~

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    There's the first Solar who died of old age and caused all the Solars to freak out as well as, Igrosh Silverclaws I think his name was? The Lunar elder who delivered a prophecy on his death bed.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jen View Post

                      Say, do we have any canon Exalted who die from old age ? I don't quite remember how Saibok Gauto die.
                      Gauto is probably still alive. In my headcanon anyway.

                      There's a mention of some Primordial War veteran Solars (none named iirc) dying of old age in DotFA and how it set off a big freak out among Celestials when it happened.


                      "Chicanery-No: If a player uses this Charm in an abusive or exploitative manner, the ST may punch him right in the goddamn face." --TheDementedOne

                      "Happiness is very brittle and short-lived in the Exalted community, because ressentiment is our cultural touchstone." --Gayo

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jen View Post

                        Say, do we have any canon Exalted who die from old age ? I don't quite remember how Saibok Gauto die.

                        We're never told. Maybe he never did?

                        Facet Raven was the first Celestial to die of old age, in DotFA; before this, they felt they were immortal, and...a lot of issues arose from that. Closer to the current age, the oldest Lunar was Ingosh Silverclaws, who gave the Lunars their Prophecy of the Time of Tumult before croaking. I don't recall any other Celestials said to have, although both Queen Merela and Chejop are depicted as being close to death, in their respective stories. Presumably, many DBs have, although we are rarely shown this. Ragara and Cainan are both probably the closest, although Mnemon is, I believe, older than they are? Wait, maybe not...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Didn't Ingosh Silverclaws? And did Dreams of the First Age name the one guy who was the first Celestial to die of old age, thus kicking off the Thousand Struggles Era?


                          I am extremely literal-minded and always write very literally. If I don't say something explicitly, please never assume I implied it. The only exception is if I try to joke.
                          Exalted name-generators, Infernal and 1E-2.5E homebrew from many authors

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Hand-of-Omega View Post
                            Does it really bother people that their PCs aren't immortal? Given that even Terrestrials will still be around for hundreds of years (barring accident or murder) after gameplay starts, and Celestials much longer, why should that really matter *to the player*?
                            To the player, as such? No, "death by old age" would probably only show up if someone brough out some "quick ageing"-magic, and another counters it by "Ha, I don't age, so multiplying my ageing speed does nothing!". I don't think playing a character to his maximum age comes up in anything but the rarest cases.

                            However, that doesn't really matter. It's the story and characters who are affected. And trying to reach - and even actually reaching immortality are both valid concepts.
                            Just because most of our european heroes died learning that there were things more important than personal immortality doesn't mean that this has to be a fixed rule. Asian mythology is full of people who reached immortality. Heck, Sun Wukong got three layers of immortality (Erased his name from the book of Life and Death, ate the peaches of immortality, drank the wine of immortality), and that was before his story really got started.

                            Originally posted by Hand-of-Omega View Post
                            The real problem with the Stone of Immortality and other means of living forever are the narrative effects it has on certain setting-defining NPCs such things would make a difference for. The Scarlet Empress is in her position explicitly because she was chasing immortality, but it seems that getting/creating the Stone probably shouldn't be beyond her means. The Bronze Faction offered Chejop a Stone, and he refused it, which seems out of character to me, given his desperate need to overwork himself to get everything done in the limited time he has left; but they could give it to Cainan, as his limited lifespan is stated to be the only obstacle to the Bronze making him Scarlet Emperor.
                            Pretty much this, yah. Having easy no-ageing-immortality makes "[Person of relevance] tries hard to find a way to extend [his/her] life even further" very hard to sell.
                            But as I understand it, in 3ed, higher levels of sorcery allow for more and more advanced Sourcerous Workings. So, amusingly, making "Immunity to ageing" a possible Solar level sourcerous project would keep... well, pretty much all those characters's stories in line. In fact, it could enable the plot hook that her Redness herself helped free the Solars with the hope of finding a way to extend her life even further, and it also gives the amusing situation that the only ones able to extend Ketchup Carjack's life are the ones he sees as the greatest threat to creation.

                            Or make it a a Celestial level thing, with the disclaimer that Sids can't do it because Saturn vetoes them whenever they try (and Lunars aren't going to help them). Until the Getimian guy happened.
                            Last edited by Dusk Shine; 03-18-2015, 12:55 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Dusk Shine View Post
                              To the player, as such? No, "death by old age" would probably only show up if someone brough out some "quick ageing"-magic, and another counters it by "Ha, I don't age, so multiplying my ageing speed does nothing!". I don't think playing a character to his maximum age comes up in anything but the rarest cases.

                              However, that doesn't really matter. It's the story and characters who are affected. And trying to reach - and even actually reaching immortality are both valid concepts.
                              Just because most of our european heroes died learning that there were things more important than personal immortality doesn't mean that this has to be a fixed rule. Asian mythology is full of people who reached immortality. Heck, Sun Wukong got three layers of immortality (Erased his name from the book of Life and Death, ate the peaches of immortality, drank the wine of immortality), and that was before his story really got started.
                              Well, it's not exactly unheard of elsewhere, either: Utnapishtim is a great example, as are the various Greek Heroes who were given immortality, of which Hercules is the best known example.

                              Anyway, sure, it's about the story and characters, but the OP was specifically about *players* being upset about this, if I read it correctly.

                              But as I understand it, in 3ed, higher levels of sorcery allow for more and more advanced Sourcerous Workings. So, amusingly, making "Immunity to ageing" a possible Solar level sourcerous project would keep... well, pretty much all those characters's stories in line. In fact, it could enable the plot hook that her Redness herself helped free the Solars with the hope of finding a way to extend her life even further, and it also gives the amusing situation that the only ones able to extend Ketchup Carjack's life are the ones he sees as the greatest threat to creation.

                              Or make it a a Celestial level thing, with the disclaimer that Sids can't do it because Saturn vetoes them whenever they try (and Lunars aren't going to help them). Until the Getimian guy happened.
                              Yeah, he's functionally immortal, and now canonically the oldest living Sidereal/Exalt, taking the crown away from Chejop.

                              Anyway, those are some good ideas, and I hope 3E's canon is flexible enough to include such changes!

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X