Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Exalted Fiction and Dragon-Blooded

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Exalted Fiction and Dragon-Blooded

    So, i've been reading a lot of the Exalted fiction and novels lately. The Trilogy of the Second Age and a Day Dark as Night and further books... And I've come to notice something very unflattering about the DB's.

    It seems most (not all) of the fiction writers see the Dragon-Blooded as these thug extras. For a simple newly borne Solar to take down an entire Wyld Hunt, and only the Sidereal be any real threat. And not just take them down...take them down easy. An entire Wyld Hunt wasted with 12 arrows. And also, in In Northern Twilight, while it gives pretty impressive details on the visuals of the Terrestrials, they are still just as easily taken down.

    I mean, its pretty lame that one of the Exalted, of any tier, can so easily be tossed aside. They are epic and Chosen and capable of great deeds, with all the heart and fervor of one of the Celestial's. Maybe their power carries a bit less oomph, but that doesn't mean their heroics or import are any less.

    I can understand a certain perspective... a newly Exalted Solar Dawn caste vs a single Dragon-Blood that finds him. Its going to be a tough fight on both ends, the difference being that the Solar will do everything because his life is on the line, and the Dragon-Blooded has the option of withdrawing and contacting his peers, makes the DB less likely to fight to the death, unless he's a Fire Aspect with a ton of pride. But there should be no one-shotting involved at all, at least not just a casual "shot him in the chest with an arrow, he dead". That's what trained mortal soldiers are for.

    I just hope the fiction for this new edition paints all of the Exalted in the light that they deserve. Terrestrials are not to be trifled with, even by the Celestials, because, believe it or not, they have power.

  • #2
    Classic Worfing.


    "Chicanery-No: If a player uses this Charm in an abusive or exploitative manner, the ST may punch him right in the goddamn face." --TheDementedOne

    "Happiness is very brittle and short-lived in the Exalted community, because ressentiment is our cultural touchstone." --Gayo

    Comment


    • #3
      I have not read any Exalted fiction, but from the sound of it I agree with Zelbinnean; it's Worfing (and extreme one of that). One combat focused Essence 4-5 DB on vacation would be a very scary opponent for a newish Solar. The same DB fully geared for a Wyld hunt... Then add the rest of the hunt members... Even with 2nd editions power tiers between the different Exalts, a "newly borne Solar to take down an entire Wyld Hunt" sounds like bad writing no matter how second rate the hunt in question is.

      Comment


      • #4
        This perception was not helped very much at all by Dragon-Blooded mechanical performance in 1e and pre-errata 2e. Without powerful stacked defences (1e) and cheap perfects (2e) Dragon-Bloods would fall against even moderately experienced Solars and Celestials as though they were nothing.

        2.5 errata has redressed the balance somewhat. I've had Dragon-Bloods fight similarly experienced Celestials to a standstill and even scored some wins, which would previously have been unthinkable. Group defences, cooperative attacks, buffs and coordination Charms make well integrated parties of Dragon-Bloods a significant threat. They still have some technical issues such as some Abilities being very weak in comparison to others, but overall they are much more robust.

        The only third edition fiction featuring Dragon-Bloods we have so far are from the anthology. Although the only Wyld Hunt that appears is defeated, they are treated as a serious threat.


        Writer for Exalted.

        Comment


        • #5
          I agree with crumple with the caveat that the narrative, particular fiction, should not feel beholden to game mechanics as a prerequisite for writing a good story. It's non-interactive, unlike an RPG - nobody gets hurt if DBs seem to be narratively tougher in fiction than they really were in play.


          "Chicanery-No: If a player uses this Charm in an abusive or exploitative manner, the ST may punch him right in the goddamn face." --TheDementedOne

          "Happiness is very brittle and short-lived in the Exalted community, because ressentiment is our cultural touchstone." --Gayo

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Zelbinnean View Post
            I agree with crumple with the caveat that the narrative, particular fiction, should not feel beholden to game mechanics as a prerequisite for writing a good story. It's non-interactive, unlike an RPG - nobody gets hurt if DBs seem to be narratively tougher in fiction than they really were in play.
            And I agree with the caveat, I meant only that the mechanical problems contributed to the perception. I remember Dragon-Bloods being spoken of as extras more than once. This clearly wasn't in line with the writer intent; I think it was Grabowski who said he intended Mnemon to be one of the primary antagonists of the setting.


            Writer for Exalted.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Crumplepunch View Post
              This perception was not helped very much at all by Dragon-Blooded mechanical performance in 1e and pre-errata 2e.
              You're kidding, right? You're pulling some kind of elaborate joke?

              Pre-errata, Essence Disruption Attack was a non-Shaping non-attack that could tack on an arbitrary number of motes to the cost of your so-called "cheap" perfects, and once that happened, they could tag you with the non-Shaping Soul Mastery to destroy your soul and kill you dead. Easy access to jade and not having to pay double for the bonus and no clause against stacking also meant they could lay into you with extremely low-Speed attacks and have their DV refresh twice for every time you act.

              There are some mechanical holes, but DBs being able to beat Solars was not something that was invented with the first batch of errata.


              He/him

              Comment


              • #8
                What does Worfing means?


                Comment


                • #9
                  From Star Trek: TNG. Showing how strong someone is by beating up the Character named Worf, that was supposed to be a stong warrior.
                  http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph.../TheWorfEffect
                  I haven't read it (or perhaps did back then, but forgot it...), but here is an older thread here about it http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...ed-good-or-bad

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
                    Pre-errata, Essence Disruption Attack was a non-Shaping non-attack that could tack on an arbitrary number of motes to the cost of your so-called "cheap" perfects, and once that happened, they could tag you with the non-Shaping Soul Mastery to destroy your soul and kill you dead. Easy access to jade and not having to pay double for the bonus and no clause against stacking also meant they could lay into you with extremely low-Speed attacks and have their DV refresh twice for every time you act.
                    Essence Disruption Attack could only tack on an arbitrary number of motes to cheap perfects if it was not itself overcome by a cheap perfect. Having deleterious effects on the target's traits qualified it as an attack under 2e. EDA cost 3m+ 1wp, and could, like any other attack, be blocked for 3m by Seven Shadow Evasion. Soul Mastery was a terrible Charm because not only was it very expensive (10m), but when it was perfected for (Essence) actions it would kill the Immaculate instead.

                    That was perfect-or-die gameplay in action. Every attack that could possibly threaten you got perfected. In 2e DBs did not have cheap all-applicable perfect defences and therefore they would lose combat with Solars every time.

                    2.5 fixed the worst of it and that should be celebrated.
                    Last edited by Crumplepunch; 03-25-2015, 05:33 PM.


                    Writer for Exalted.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
                      You're kidding, right? You're pulling some kind of elaborate joke?

                      Pre-errata, Essence Disruption Attack was a non-Shaping non-attack that could tack on an arbitrary number of motes to the cost of your so-called "cheap" perfects, and once that happened, they could tag you with the non-Shaping Soul Mastery to destroy your soul and kill you dead. Easy access to jade and not having to pay double for the bonus and no clause against stacking also meant they could lay into you with extremely low-Speed attacks and have their DV refresh twice for every time you act.

                      There are some mechanical holes, but DBs being able to beat Solars was not something that was invented with the first batch of errata.
                      A couple powerful Charms do not a good Charmset make. I consider the vast majority of DB Charms to be on the Sidereal level of "usability" or "interacts appropriately with the 2e system."

                      Copypasta + 1e conversions done by people who didn't remotely understand the 2nd edition rules made for truly shitty mechanics.


                      "Chicanery-No: If a player uses this Charm in an abusive or exploitative manner, the ST may punch him right in the goddamn face." --TheDementedOne

                      "Happiness is very brittle and short-lived in the Exalted community, because ressentiment is our cultural touchstone." --Gayo

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It's somewhat unfortunate but I find this unlikely to change. DBs play the role of jobber really really well. They roll in, hold a daiklave to your throat, demand all your money, and then use it to buy coke and snort it of your now enslaved sister. There's enough of them that killing a few isn't a big deal and the realm is big enough to take the hit. They're also everywhere and you don't need an excuse for them to be fighting because...well Wyld Hunt. In theory DBs are bad assets, theres lots of them, they work well in teams, they're covered in magic weapons and armor, and their powers are really flashy to look at and describe. It takes a whole lot of worfing to make a blazing hero, wielding the relic blade of his ancestors, forged in the dying embers of the First Flame, surrounded by his zealous sworn brothers and their mortal soldiers into a chump.

                        On the other hand I'm hoping they vary it up a bit in the next edition. I think there's zero chance that they'll start depicting successful Wyld Hunts, but switching up who gets beat on to prove X is a badass would be cool. Right now Lunars and DBs get the short end of the stick all the time. It's just starting to have an adverse effect where I see elemental samurai in glittering Jade armor and I just wonder what pillar the dawn is going to throw them through to show off what a boss he is.

                        Solars are the heroes of all the books/comics in exalted, to the best of my recollection anyway, so you can't really have them lose. Then you'd have no more heroes. The DBs and Lunars could stand to be a little more cool while they lose though.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I dunno. Depicting various stories where the Wyld Hunt did succeed would go a long way to showing "Hey, a Wyld Hunt. Unless you're VERY resourceful and just damn lucky, you're probably gonna die."

                          Naturally, PC's get very luck by way of the ST, but the Wyld Hunt has been tremendously successful throughout the years. Showcasing a few of their more exciting take downs I think would be just swell.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I am not well versed on 2nd edition but I remember a few examples of Solars losing in the chapter fiction, Dace is beaten by Ma Ha Suchi, a solar boy is killed by Cynis Avaku etc. Maybe I don't interact enough with the sound chamber of these forums but a lot of the solar hate I see seems to ignore any of the many stories that have the solars running for their lives or losing. I'm not saying db's and lunar's don't get the short end of it but I have a hard time taking posts like this seriously. The book was written with the purposes of having the solars be the hero's obviously they are going to be the badassest of all. Conan seldom struggles one against one with even well trained soldiers. Whether A dragonblooded should by definition be a big bad that gets a lot of page count should vary by the needs of the narrative.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Arteliex View Post
                              I dunno. Depicting various stories where the Wyld Hunt did succeed would go a long way to showing "Hey, a Wyld Hunt. Unless you're VERY resourceful and just damn lucky, you're probably gonna die."

                              Naturally, PC's get very luck by way of the ST, but the Wyld Hunt has been tremendously successful throughout the years. Showcasing a few of their more exciting take downs I think would be just swell.
                              i agree so far the only times iv'e seen a db take down a celestial exalt was when A it was a freaking kid, way to show of the dragon blooded power there. B by using the dawn to punch the heck out of the eclipse whilst cool it doesn't really make up for the fact that the other db's where killed ridiculously easy


                              I'm making the Tales of Exalts webcomic
                              http://xanroth.deviantart.com/galler...ales-of-exalts
                              alchemical report http://xanroth.deviantart.com/galler...hemical-Report
                              the fall http://xanroth.deviantart.com/gallery/55265686/the-fall

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X