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3e Sorcery! ...again!

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  • Arteliex
    started a topic 3e Sorcery! ...again!

    3e Sorcery! ...again!

    Yay! Another Sorcery thread!

    Ok, so I've been reading Elric of Melnibone, in no small part because its been said to influence Exalted sorcery quite a bit.

    I've been reading about it in the context of mortals using it. And I must think...if every sorcery is the product of sorcerous working, and those working are like the sorceries used in Elric... then my gods! I mean, I can see it, a EXALT wouldn't even want to use sorcery most of the time, much less a mortal, because of the massive drain. Its something he CAN do, when he needs, but not something that is anything nearly as easy as 1st and 2nd edition had it.

    -Character 1: Hey, we're going to need you to do that thing.
    -Sorcerer: *whines* but...but its harrrrrrrd.....
    -Character 2: Just do it!
    -Sorcerer: *goes limp* ughghghghghghgh.....



    *note: Just to say, just in case, Im not complaining in the slightest. It makes me happy.
    Last edited by Arteliex; 04-02-2015, 09:29 PM.

  • Zelbinnean
    replied
    Originally posted by Hand-of-Omega View Post
    Well, Exalted is the *sum* of its parts, not just those parts only. Scene-long insta-summoning is very in-theme for anime/video games, which are also a big part of its inspiration.
    Hmm, I'm not denying that anime and video games aren't big inspirations for exalted, but they also operate in a very different context - video games especially not worrying about battle ramifications long-term in the same way that tabletop RPGs do, because the consequence is either immaterial or predetermined. So on this front I'd say the pulp is the more likely thing to be the influence, because I don't think "summon demon for 3 minute fight and he then poofs away" is really in-genre for the kind of game Exalted portrays itself as.

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  • Xanandithras
    replied
    I...kinda want the alternate elemental versions of Wood Dragon's Claw to show up again.

    Leave a comment:


  • JayTee
    replied
    Given how much noise is being made over sorcerous initiations and workings, I could see something that lets you accelerate a summoning spell to get you a demon/elemental army going real quick being possible.

    Alternately, just use the old standby of summoning 2nd and 3rd circle demons and having them summon minions for you. Given how summoning now binds the subject to the spirit and the letter of the law, this feels like less of an insane risk.

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  • Hand-of-Omega
    replied
    Well, Exalted is the *sum* of its parts, not just those parts only. Scene-long insta-summoning is very in-theme for anime/video games, which are also a big part of its inspiration. I'm not sure how that would work, given its metaphysics, but I'd love to see the option!

    Leave a comment:


  • Zelbinnean
    replied
    Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post
    What about "Summon Monster" type spells, which allow you to summon up a demon (or ghost or whatever) in combat time, skip the battle of wills, but then the demon vanishes at the end of the scene?
    That's way too D&D and I don't feel like it fits the pulp sorcerer aesthetic. Summoning a demon should always be a big deal if only ritually, even if your binding success is basically guaranteed by your puissance. I think something is taken away from it if it's so casual.

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  • AnubisXy
    replied
    What about "Summon Monster" type spells, which allow you to summon up a demon (or ghost or whatever) in combat time, skip the battle of wills, but then the demon vanishes at the end of the scene?

    Leave a comment:


  • Zelbinnean
    replied
    Mass summoning...I dunno. It makes it very impersonal in a way. I think demon summoning should always seem like a big deal and clash of wills even if it's a Solar who summons a sesseljae after every weekend bender. Mass summoning unfortunately reminds me too much of using Summon Monster V to call several creatures off the Summon Monster Iv list at once.

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  • Hand-of-Omega
    replied
    I'm hoping for actual Mass Summoning...meaning, actually summoning multiple demons at a time, instead of what prior editions *called* Mass Summoning, which turned out to be just a marathon session of summoning one demon a night until your numbers were met.

    I never had a chance to test it, but I started homebrewing a system for Terrestrial cooperative sorcery using the teamwork rules, where a group of sorcerers can focus their power onto the one with the highest Occult/Essence; this would allow him to supercharge Terrestrial spells, and even cast Celestial spells to a limited degree. Mainly, they still couldn't initiate into the Celestial level, and they couldn't internalize the spells, which had to be cast from a book or scroll each time. There was also to be an increased chance of botching, with disastrous results.

    I hadn't decided if Celestial Exalted could do the same with Solar magic or not...

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  • Zelbinnean
    replied
    Originally posted by Ren9077 View Post
    I disagree with your premise.
    Which premise would that be? Your post is unclear.

    Originally posted by Ren9077 View Post
    Sorcerers can be combat threats without being 100% dedicated to spellcasting.
    Uh, where exactly did I say they couldn't/shouldn't be?

    I said people generally didn't like the "to cast a spell, you must stand there like an idiot and gesticulate for 1-3 rounds" rule of 2e, which was always a truly terrible rule for how it completely screwed over sorcerers. I don't think this is gonna be a problem in 3e because I doubt the "stand there like an idiot" is going to be a Required Thing to cast to begin with, if it's even a Thing at all. There are much more interesting ways to draw in ambient Essence than standing there gesticulating wildly.

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  • Ren9077
    replied
    Originally posted by Zelbinnean View Post
    This assumes that the only way to save up Essence to cast is to stand there gesticulating wildly.

    Given how much people hated this is past ends, and given other statements Vance has made, I really doubt this is going to be the only method. Hell, it may not even be a method. There's really nothing fun about being forced to stand around and gesticulate wildly for several turns, and Vance said that combat sorcery was fun to play.
    I disagree with your premise.

    Holden's favored examples include Invulnerable Skin of Bronze and Wood Dragon's Claw. Sorcerers can be combat threats without being 100% dedicated to spellcasting.

    As far as spells meant for combat casting are concerned, maybe things like Death of Obsidian Butterflies and such pack a bigger punch, but they're not D&D insta-cast, either. You're investing extra time for a bigger bang, and finding the space to do that could be a big part of the fun.

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  • Zelbinnean
    replied
    Originally posted by Drecain View Post
    You could argue that 2e:s shape sorcery action was this, although there you still had to pay the spell cost from your own mote pool. Here's hoping that that is not going to be the case again. Being crippled for a round mumbling and waving my arms around only to get stabbed in the chest sounds less like the combat sorcery I would like...
    This assumes that the only way to save up Essence to cast is to stand there gesticulating wildly.

    Given how much people hated this is past ends, and given other statements Vance has made, I really doubt this is going to be the only method. Hell, it may not even be a method. There's really nothing fun about being forced to stand around and gesticulate wildly for several turns, and Vance said that combat sorcery was fun to play.

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  • L'het'esh
    replied
    Er, wasn't that how Thaumaturgy worked? A procedure collected the Essence necesssary and the idea that an Exalt could shave time off by supplying Essence from their pool was nerfed?

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  • Arteliex
    replied
    Well, if Sorcery is something you can charge, that'd just be swell.

    I mean, maybe it is a sense of 'charging' motes for the spell. Exalts have the advantage in that they already have a mote pool. If they want, they can just cast the spell. Or they can charge the spell so they don't use any of their own essence, or maybe that can combine the two for a greater effect.

    Mortals, on the other hand, have to charge their spell.

    Personally, I like the idea of taking a turn or two to summon the energies of a spell to unleash vast havoc, but at the same time, I see its complications and undesirability in combat. Still, for a mortal game with a Sorcerer in it, having your other mortal companions protect you while you work can be fun and suspenseful.

    I just...I just want to KNOW already! DX

    Leave a comment:


  • Drecain
    replied
    You could argue that 2e:s shape sorcery action was this, although there you still had to pay the spell cost from your own mote pool. Here's hoping that that is not going to be the case again. Being crippled for a round mumbling and waving my arms around only to get stabbed in the chest sounds less like the combat sorcery I would like...

    Leave a comment:

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