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Male Seducer: Too Weird/Creepy ?

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  • Jen
    started a topic Male Seducer: Too Weird/Creepy ?

    Male Seducer: Too Weird/Creepy ?


    One of the legend from my country says that the Triệu Dynasty can repel defeat all their enemy is due to a magic crossbow, among their enemies is Zhao Tuo who thought of a plan to help him gain victoryi.e offering his son as a spy....I mean peace treaty. This is interesting since it's often women who got offered as gift to other people, I can think of Chinese Great Beauties and Helen of Troy. And most of the time, they was sent to the opposite sides so they can bring ruin and misfortune to them, Diaochan causes Lubu an Dong Zhou to killed each other, Xi Shi bewitched Fuchai of Wu so her kingdom can take revenge.

    So I kinda wonder if people will roll their eyes when they see a burly Lunar seducing Dynasts from their satrapy's duties, making them cater to his every whims and finally leads them to their ruin when the satrapy finally revolts again the tyrannical Dynasts who tax the shit out of the peasant to build a meat forest and wine river for the Lunar. I'm not talking about the weird manly seducer like Casanova or James Bond, but more like Daji or the fox demon from Painted Skin, sexy and seductive when nearing their target and crying demurely if someone accuse them of being flesh-eating skinwalker Anathema. Or is it too weird to see a muscular man playing hide and seek or pouring wine for his lords and ladies while whispering poisonous wisdom into their ears.

    Oh, and side question, but is there...ahem.....male nymph. Since Tumblr's tag for Exalted is currently being dominated by underwear male model posing near river and waterfall, I just wonder if there is any chance a character will see a bunch of supernaturally hot men playing in the water on their journey around Creation, or is it just boobs and bikini witches all year round.

  • TheCountAlucard
    replied
    Originally posted by kindledRadial View Post
    Iron Thrones Running Red?
    The throne of Melniboné was made from a single ruby, was it not? Ruby Thrones perhaps?

    Leave a comment:


  • kindledRadial
    replied
    Originally posted by Lioness View Post
    She still needs a name/title.
    Iron Thrones Running Red?

    Leave a comment:


  • Isator Levi
    replied
    Originally posted by Lioness View Post
    She still needs a name/title.

    Spiller of Scarlet Passions.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lioness
    replied
    Originally posted by Xanandithras View Post
    ::slow clap::

    Lioness has won the thread. Thread over.
    She still needs a name/title.


    Leave a comment:


  • Segev
    replied
    Two things:

    1) The stereotypes exist because there are factors driving them deeper than mere social constructs. As stereotypes, they will not be universally true, but it is dangerous and harmful to the majority of people to pretend that not only are they not extant, but that any nod towards them is a sign of a flaw in the people who express them.

    2) Are we sure this is the thread to be discussing whether or not women (or men) are oppressed by modern society, whether "progressive" or "conservative" views regarding gender roles are valid, and generally bringing up grievance politics?



    Tangentially related: if you want to see the shift in prevailing pop cultural attitudes regarding the sexes, compare I Love Lucy-era TV with modern TV, and watch closely who is the bumbling fool and who is the wise and long-suffering one that cleans up the messes made by the former.

    In modern TV, it's almost formulaic: the man will be at best a well-meaning sort who nevertheless is too staid or buffoonish or caught up in himself to realize that he's making a fool of himself and others, while the down-to-earth woman is wise enough to point out his foibles. Even when she's not sympathetic and the one to "fix everything," she's the one who has the right to say "I told you so" far more often than does the man.

    This is not, mind, a complaint. It just is what it is, and is an interesting note about the direction modern pop culture takes the gender role. It's not "acceptable" to make the woman look foolish, but it is to make the man do so.


    More on-topic: Seduction is going to inevitably play into gender roles. The differences between the sexes is 90% of the allure for some 97+% of the populace. I can't speak for the remaining ~3%, but I suspect the fact that most of them have a sex preference means that the differences between the sexes matter to them, as well, in that they're interested in one particular type more than the other.

    As far as trained seductors and seductresses go, they're going to be trained to play into their phenotypical stereotypes. They may, in fact, be trained to play into multiple stereotypes, based on their target's predilections, but the primary mode will be to play into the ones that match their phenotypes because that's what is going to create the least cognitive dissonance and thus have the most likelihood of getting around any rational barriers to the emotional and hormonal response that seduction seeks to evoke.

    Leave a comment:


  • kindledRadial
    replied
    There has been a lot of progress made in the last decade towards open and frank discussion on toxic masculinity as well as misogyny, a fact I am doubly pleased to see because the women's movement has always been in the vanguard decrying the negative effects that these gender roles have on men as well as women. The problem is far from "fixed" but I'm optimistic about the progress, and I think that fiction like comics, TV, movies and TRPGs has done a lot of work on that subject. Very glad to see a conversation about this topic here on the forum.

    As to male seducers I think it helps to put aside your preconceptions about what seduction "should" be and think about what would work on you. In general, people respond quickly to confidence, like to feel liked and ideally want to feel safe in that person's presence. The question of body types is very subjective (there was a long thread just recently on Appearance) and honestly I think less important in practice than TV and movies would have you think. As long as your appearance is passable most people will give you the time of day if you seem nice, sincerely interested and respectful of their views. I always think of Stevie Dee from Betsy's Wedding as the world's most charming man, if anyone besides me even remembers that old gem.

    Leave a comment:


  • wulf
    replied
    I'm so happy to see this topic discussed because it's something that's bothered me ever since childhood. Growing up as a boy, being told that I was expected to be athletic, into girls, tough, to never cry, et cetera. I always worried that since I don't really fit any of that, then maybe I'm not a boy? It really fucked with my head for a long time. I went through a period of believing I was genderfluid. As it turns out, my head was (and still is) full of toxic notions about masculinity. It took my boyfriend, a sociologist, to tell me, "You're very much a dude. You wear make-up and have wedge-heel shoes, but you're definitely a dude." He has a degree in Sociology and Gender Studies, so what he said to me carried a lot of weight and helped to vanquish my lingering doubts.

    And now I'm finding make-up tutorials on YouTube for men, by men. It feels as though there's this entire segment of society that has already decided to just straight-up ignore the masculine ideal of the gruff muscle-man who should never be sexualised. They're not fighting against that idea, they've just decided it's stupid and over, and they've moved on. I think both this passive approach to dealing with this topic, and those who actively discuss and challenge it will help to move us all forward. And it's nice that I don't hear anyone questioning whether or not men have privilege - we do, it's a fact. It's a waste of time to debate whether or not men have privilege, or which gender has it worse. Women face challenges that men know nothing of. (There was a recent thread on Reddit asking women about the first time they were sexualized by a stranger and the majority of the stories are about girls aged 10 - 14. It was a real eye-opener for many men who had no idea that this is common for women.)

    On the topic of male seducers: I'm kind of insulated in the gay world. Men in my world are sexualized. Some of my favorite music videos objectify men and I have to say, it's pretty awesome. In the gay world, though, this is an interesting topic that is discussed differently from the objectification of women in the heteronormative world. In the world of gay men, male objectification is both expected and encouraged - very few of us see this as being a bad thing. Many of us want to be viewed as walking dicks with great bodies. Now, I could discuss how this actually stems from a form of deep-seated insecurities and a sense of rejection from greater society and even families, but that's a whole 'nother topic. I'm not saying the way gay men handle the idea of male seduction is healthy or positive, but there is something to it that we could potentially take away as being good: Men in the heteronormative world either don't know they can be sexy or reject that they should be sexy. The idea of "sexy" is generally reserved only for women, and this hurts all genders ultimately. It places an over-emphasis on women-as-objects and an under-emphasis on men having positive (not neutral) body image (the differentiation between "neutral" and "positive" body image is an important one).

    Leave a comment:


  • Zelbinnean
    replied
    Originally posted by Erinys View Post
    I think there's a common misperception that because men are privileged over women, that they don't have anything problematic imposed on them in Western society. I think less harm is imposed on them but the narrowness of the gender expectations for men look pretty harmful to me, and there are stereotypes that do harm to men and boys in some circumstances.
    Oh yeah, totally. Western culture is saturated with toxic masculinity. Toxic masculinity isn't the source of notions like "woman are inferior to men" and the types of interactions that characterize objectification of women and rape culture, or the notion of "feminine = lesser" with the implication there about non-heterosexual men being lesser, but toxic masculinity, put on a pedestal by patriarchy as The Correct Way To Be Male, certainly helps perpetuate these notions.
    Last edited by Zelbinnean; 04-11-2015, 06:30 PM.

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  • Erinys
    replied
    I think there's a common misperception that because men are privileged over women, that they don't have anything problematic imposed on them in Western society. I think less harm is imposed on them but the narrowness of the gender expectations for men look pretty harmful to me, and there are stereotypes that do harm to men and boys in some circumstances.
    Last edited by Erinys; 04-11-2015, 02:31 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • JayTee
    replied
    Originally posted by hippokrene View Post
    They are and have been for decades now.

    I'd say that the biggest difference is that the people inclined to advocate for womanhood are largely progressive when it comes to gender roles, while those inclined to advocate for manhood seem to be largely conservative.
    If true, this would explain why I feel like I've never seen anything like it, and why there seems to be an almost unhealthy fixation on women's issues.

    Not that I'm doubting your claim, I just find it easy to remain skeptical, as men tend to be left behind on almost every time there is talk of social, cultural or legal change. I find it also gives me a greater degree of empathy for women, if a bit begrudging.
    Last edited by JayTee; 04-11-2015, 12:17 PM.

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  • Erinys
    replied
    Originally posted by JayTee View Post
    I long for the day where the gender roles of men are looked at with the same level of scrutiny that the gender roles of women are now.
    Gods yes. I wonder sometimes when a REAL men's movement will start pushing for more latitude for men's gender roles in Western society. Being trapped in such a narrow, stifling expectation can't be healthy.

    Leave a comment:


  • Isator Levi
    replied
    Originally posted by Loup
    The problem is that aggression is an emotional display. My god, it is the most emotional of emotional displays. I can at least cry quietly in a bathroom - punching shit and killing your enemies is really wearing your heart on your sleeves.
    I find that aggression is a more versatile term then that. If, say, you're in a negotiation and opt to go straight for the jugular by laying out how weak the other person's position is and the tools you have to destroy them, that's aggressive, and it's not incongruous with you being collected, or even laconic. Hell, some of the most effective aggression is that where you provoke emotional responses from another while maintaining the image of being in personal and situational control; there's a spectrum between what you're describing and passive aggression, and this is somewhere around the middle.

    Leave a comment:


  • hippokrene
    replied
    Originally posted by JayTee View Post
    I long for the day where the gender roles of men are looked at with the same level of scrutiny that the gender roles of women are now.
    They are and have been for decades now.

    I'd say that the biggest difference is that the people inclined to advocate for womanhood are largely progressive when it comes to gender roles, while those inclined to advocate for manhood seem to be largely conservative.
    Last edited by hippokrene; 04-11-2015, 04:17 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • JayTee
    replied
    I long for the day where the gender roles of men are looked at with the same level of scrutiny that the gender roles of women are now.

    Leave a comment:

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