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How well do you see the Sidereal cooperate and coordinate?

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  • How well do you see the Sidereal cooperate and coordinate?

    How well do the different "departments" of the Sids cooperate in your mind?

    Can a Chosen of Serenity be put on a mission to make sure an ending fate is fulfilled, so they only do missions within their specialty; or is it the missions end objective that is important, and they don't want to call in favors from Chosen of other Maidens if not necessary?

    In my mind, it is the second on. There are of course cooperation, but there is also rivalry, office politics, and even hostility.
    In another thread, I mentioned I can see a Chosen of Ending to be sent on a matchmaking mission; because the couple will give birth to a hero who will overthrow a kingdom. The mission could be handled over to a Chosen of Serenity, who probably would be more capableā€¦ But beside the more narrow set of available mission in a game, I want there to be a lot of internal tensions. Do it yourself (not ones specialty), ask those above to reassign (giving them a hold), ask another Sid directly (owning a favor); always nice to have options

  • #2
    I imagine that when a Division in the Bureau of Fate has a problem, most likely they prefer to keep things "in house" rather than going to other Bureaus to ask for help and assistance. That's just how bureaucracies work.

    At the same time though, the Sidereal Exalted are expert troubleshooters, and they represent a powerful "cross Division faction." There's also only one hundred of these guys, and not all of them are working for the Bureaus. So if a matter comes up that requires sending a Sidereal Exalt, it's very possible that a Division won't have a Sidereal in a position to be placed on that mission - their Sidereal Exalts might be tied up doing other things.

    So in such a case, it wouldn't be weird or unusual to request a Sidereal from another Division be sent to help out or for bigger jobs, to request multiple Sidereal to team up. Even if there is some incredibly important issue that the Division of Endings is very interested in handling, they probably don't have five Chosen of Endings who are free that they can assign to that task, so they're forced to ask for more help from the other Divisions.

    This is probably something the Divisions don't like but it's something that they've gotten used to over the last several thousand years. There just aren't enough Sidereal operatives in each Bureau to fulfill every mission and sometimes you have to ask for a Sidereal from another department to come by and help fix your problems, even if they won't necessarily solve the problem the way someone from your Division would solve it.

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    • #3
      I imagine that planning history is a more complex and holistic thing than just "give each Sidereal missions according to their Caste". Sidereal involvement in the management of the Bureau is primarily divided by Direction rather than Division, for one thing. I imagine that Caste often intersects with the specialties that Sidereals, as individuals, cultivate, and thus the assignments and offices that they actively pursue.


      I have approximate knowledge of many things.
      Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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      • #4
        They would almost have to work together well, and the Sidereal Elders and their godly counterparts are probably absolute death on inter-Division and inter-Caste (which is what you're really talking about here) rivalries.

        Keep in mind that unlike other Exalted, the base unit of organization for the Sidereal Exalted isn't the Circle; it is the Convention. Almost every active-duty Sidereal is going to be a member of a directional Convention, and many if not most of them will also be a member of other "subcommittee" Conventions; Convention on Deathlords, Convention on Demons, etc. There is only a one-in-five chance your directional Convention head, who you can actually get into serious, serious trouble for keeping secrets from, is from your same Division as you are. Your fellow members of a directional Convention are probably also going to be majority not-from-your-Division, and the guys on your miscellaneous Conventions might not be either.

        You have to work with and rely on those guys. Moreover, your superiors, when they hand you your marching orders, are going to rely on you working well with them. They're going to take a dim view of "but but but different Division, I don't like or trust those guys" because that reflects badly on them and on their managerial skills. Especially if those superiors are Gods rather than other Sidereals.

        Sidereal Castes, because there are so few of them, are also probably not always able to be "matched" precisely to their Divisions all the time when it comes to assignments. Did things fall out so that an especially high proportion of the Chosen of Endings are either Ronin, reincarnating, or on leave this decade, while there's an odd surfeit of Chosen of Serenity? Well, congratulations, Iron Siaka, you just got transferred to the Violet Bier of Sorrows. Pack your things and report to your new office, you're gonna spend a few years mostly slaying things with your mace.

        One also imagines that people being groomed for high-up positions in the Bureau of Destiny get shuffled around the various Divisions so that when they're promoted into positions in which they have inter-Division authority, they know how to use it wisely.

        The main fault line among Sidereals is almost certainly gonna be faction politics, not inter-Division strife.


        "SEX NOVA is the kind of person who, after being chosen as the divine champion of the god of heroes, decided to call himself SEX NOVA."

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        • #5
          I have to agree that Caste for Sidereals is more a matter of specialty training than exclusive purview. I'd imagine that every Sidereal is expected to be able to handle any situation that comes up within their area of assignment; that's why the Bureau goes to the trouble to standardize and accelerate training, after all. If you're a Chosen of Serenity and you're assigned to the Lap, you have to deal with Journeys, Battles, Secrets and Endings (not to mention general troubleshooting, ie terminating Yozi cults and the like) in addition to Serenity. Now, you certainly can consult with your colleges of other Castes about their areas of expertise, and they should be keeping you abreast of things you need to know (if the Lap is suddenly under siege and you didn't get notice, you have right to barge into the Crimson Panoply and ask what the hell), but it's ultimately your responsibility.

          I imagine that rivalries almost certainty exist, but on a departmental level it's considered bad form if you let them get in the way of your work. So if Journeys pulled twice your operating budget again, feel free to grumble, bitch and speculate on who Ruvia is sleeping with, but when Shepherd of the North Star shows up to assist you with that pesky shadowland, you better stow it and bring your A-game.

          Rivalries between individuals are probably much more intense and likely the cause of a fair amount of inter-Sidereal problems (including factional politics). Even then, you'd have to be careful...Nazri at least is explicitly very hard on Sidereals whom he suspects are letting their personal grudges and politics interfere with their work, and I'd be very surprised if Kejak or Ayesha would be particularly pleased if a mission was botched due to factional backstabbing. And it's hard as a Sidereal not to answer to at least one of them...between the three of them they head or are highly placed in three of the five Divisions, each chairs a Directional convention, and Kejak at least sits on every special convention, if he doesn't actually chair it.

          Now that's not to say that the three necessarily agree on most things, of course. But if you let a nation slip into the Wyld because you decided to nip off to try and kill a Solar instead, you'll probably have some hard questions to answer next time you report back to the office. Kejak may use sarcasm, or even irony.


          Originally posted by Murcushio View Post
          Well, congratulations, Iron Siaka, you just got transferred to the Violet Bier of Sorrows. Pack your things and report to your new office, you're gonna spend a few years mostly slaying things with your mace.
          I'm sure that she would be absolutely devastated by this turn of events.




          Have you ever read a Coik post before, man? lol
          -Holden

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Coik View Post
            I'd be very surprised if Kejak or Ayesha would be particularly pleased if a mission was botched due to factional backstabbing.
            I imagine from the perspective of the faction heads, it is tolerable if you have to let faction business fall by the wayside to get your real job done, but absolutely intolerable for it to happen the other way around. Ideally, you'll be able to do both, but the job takes priority.

            In order to excel, you need to be able to succeed in your real missions, your faction business, and foil the other factions business while not impacting their real missions in any way. That's a tall order, but nobody ever said the job was easy.


            "SEX NOVA is the kind of person who, after being chosen as the divine champion of the god of heroes, decided to call himself SEX NOVA."

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Lundgren View Post
              , I want there to be a lot of internal tensions. Do it yourself (not ones specialty), ask those above to reassign (giving them a hold), ask another Sid directly (owning a favor); always nice to have options
              A mis-matched job and Sidereal Caste has too much story potential to *not* be a thing that happens.

              Originally posted by Coik View Post
              you better stow it and bring your A-game.
              Sidereals are the salarymen of Exalted. I dig that kind of work ethic in my epic heroes.

              Originally posted by Murcushio View Post
              In order to excel, you need to be able to succeed in your real missions, your faction business, and foil the other factions business while not impacting their real missions in any way. That's a tall order, but nobody ever said the job was easy.
              The tension of usurping the Creation Ruling Mandate and disagreeing how Creation should be ruled is one rife with conflict.


              Sand Creek, or The Inspection of Cracks in the Desert Cecelyne - A Solar buddy travel fanfiction.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Murcushio View Post
                In order to excel, you need to be able to succeed in your real missions, your faction business, and foil the other factions business while not impacting their real missions in any way. That's a tall order, but nobody ever said the job was easy.
                Yeah, I'll second this. The job takes priority, but if you can screw the others while keeping the job going, go ahead.

                It has always been canon that the Violet Bier of Sorrows is shunned, for instance; they are like internal affairs. They don't get called to the parties, nobody is happy to see them, and they probably only socialize among themselves. That shouldn't impact the job, that shouldn't stop you from aiding the Bier if you get called to, or to feel like that is an honor, but in general, Sidereal culture seems to be that they are weirdos. While I have never seen a mention of this in the books, I imagine most of the others are at least a tiny bit suspicious of the Forbidding Manse; their job is to learn secrets and record them, after all, and it must be a little off-putting when they ask questions. Or refuse to reveal information. On the same token, I imagine the Chosen of Battles and Chosen of Serenities probably squabble quite a bit on whether the solution of a problem should be war or peace, and resent the other side when it is chosen, but will still go ahead and support whatever agenda is decided on, enacting duels in times of peace, loves in times of war.

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                • #9
                  Hm, I guess I have to agree. Not so much of deparment infighting, but individuals with personal biases for or agaist things. As already mentioned, Violet Bier of Sorrows isn't to popular, and I guess quite a few looks down on The Cerulean Lute of Harmony.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Lundgren View Post
                    How well do the different "departments" of the Sids cooperate in your mind?

                    Can a Chosen of Serenity be put on a mission to make sure an ending fate is fulfilled, so they only do missions within their specialty; or is it the missions end objective that is important, and they don't want to call in favors from Chosen of other Maidens if not necessary?

                    In my mind, it is the second on. There are of course cooperation, but there is also rivalry, office politics, and even hostility.
                    In another thread, I mentioned I can see a Chosen of Ending to be sent on a matchmaking mission; because the couple will give birth to a hero who will overthrow a kingdom. The mission could be handled over to a Chosen of Serenity, who probably would be more capableā€¦ But beside the more narrow set of available mission in a game, I want there to be a lot of internal tensions. Do it yourself (not ones specialty), ask those above to reassign (giving them a hold), ask another Sid directly (owning a favor); always nice to have options
                    There are just not enough Sidereals where they can hyper focus like that. If anything I expect the opposite: Sidereals are probably expected to look for unconventional solutions to all but the simplest problems, and, say, a Serenity who always approaches it from the vector of "try to convince everyone to be nice" is probably looked at as naive at best, stupid at worst.

                    Originally posted by Colapso View Post
                    On the same token, I imagine the Chosen of Battles and Chosen of Serenities probably squabble quite a bit on whether the solution of a problem should be war or peace, and resent the other side when it is chosen, but will still go ahead and support whatever agenda is decided on, enacting duels in times of peace, loves in times of war.
                    I don't think it's a good idea to pigeonhole these Castes as seeing only one singular method of resolution (conflict or peace) to a given problem and hyper-focusing on it. These are human beings, after all. Caste affects personality a LOT less than Aspect ever did, and even DB Aspects are full, broad people. What you suggest is closer on the focus level of ghosts, who explicitly don't have the full human range of expression at their disposal every moment, due to their Passions being only thin mockeries of true emotional depth.

                    Sometimes serenity comes only as a result of brutal strife. Sometimes the best way to win a battle is not to fight one in the first place.


                    "Chicanery-No: If a player uses this Charm in an abusive or exploitative manner, the ST may punch him right in the goddamn face." --TheDementedOne

                    "Happiness is very brittle and short-lived in the Exalted community, because ressentiment is our cultural touchstone." --Gayo

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                    • #11
                      To get what I want out of the Sids, I guess I primarily should see them as "case officers" (unless they get a specific mission assigned directly from a Maiden). As often as possible, the one weaving the fate, or investigation the deviation, will be of the "closest" caste.If it is important enough, it might be posible to request suitable operatives (which might be selected on trust, skill or something else, as long the job gets done). But not to seldom, the "case officer" has to rely on himself and other assets operatives; as the other Sids are busy with other assignments.

                      Then there are Sids that have learned to trust and rely on each other, and pool resources to be more efficient on every group members assignment (to explain things like player groups for longer games).

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Zelbinnean View Post
                        I don't think it's a good idea to pigeonhole these Castes as seeing only one singular method of resolution (conflict or peace) to a given problem and hyper-focusing on it. These are human beings, after all. Caste affects personality a LOT less than Aspect ever did, and even DB Aspects are full, broad people. What you suggest is closer on the focus level of ghosts, who explicitly don't have the full human range of expression at their disposal every moment, due to their Passions being only thin mockeries of true emotional depth.

                        Sometimes serenity comes only as a result of brutal strife. Sometimes the best way to win a battle is not to fight one in the first place.
                        Yup. Also worth noting that the Maidens and Sidereals aren't all about expanding the prevalence of Serenity, Battles, etc. They're about managing those things, and making sure they happen in the proper time and place. Despite the sobriquet, a Joybringer can be tasked with preventing two young scions of rival kingdoms from falling in love and subsequently bringing about a war just as easily as ensuring the two are happily wed to usher in a new age of peace for their homelands.


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