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  • Hand-of-Omega
    started a topic Go tell it to Lookshy!

    Go tell it to Lookshy!

    Lookshy is notorious for having various interpretations of its spartan-esque, warrior culture, many conflicting, both between and even within each edition. 3e will have the chance to have a consistent expression of it. So, assuming we're rebuilding it from scratch, which elements from past incarnations of Lookshy would you want to preserve? What new elements would you want to add?

    Basically, how do you want Lookshy to be represented in 3E?

  • Hand-of-Omega
    replied
    Originally posted by Greyman View Post
    The term "Denizen" seems appropriate, as it means one who dwells with a place, without being a legally recognised member of the state.
    That may be the actual meaning of the word, but it's commonly used enough that most people just know it as "dweller", without the rest. And it's bound to be used in other contexts, which would just be confusing.

    Blaque mentioned the term "Plebian", which I think would fit very well.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheCountAlucard
    replied
    Still better than Halta.

    Leave a comment:


  • Greyman
    replied
    Originally posted by Blaque View Post
    On the helotry, I kind of am in a mindset that the term helot is just not appropriate for what they are. There's a class of citizens and peasants, but the way Lookshy runs makes me think Roman-style patricians and plebians or Athenian citizens and not-citizens more than it does Spartan citizens and helots. The term just has different connotations in its use anywhere but here and comes off as token exoticism as it is. Lookshy having actual slaves doesn't help this either. I think a basic concept of citizen (Dragon-Blooded and their familes), some term for non-citizen with less baggage and slave fits the place more. Even just peasant fits better I would say.
    The term "Denizen" seems appropriate, as it means one who dwells with a place, without being a legally recognised member of the state.

    Leave a comment:


  • Argonometra
    replied
    Originally posted by Zelbinnean View Post
    That's one hell of a thread necro.
    Yep. Back before the Kickstarter, when we didn't know the Caul from Adam...when 3E hadn't even been released yet.
    Oh, wait.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hand-of-Omega
    replied
    Wow, yeah. Gonna need to reread this one, maybe reread the Lookshy chapters, and see if I still feel the same way as back then...

    Leave a comment:


  • Zelbinnean
    replied
    That's one hell of a thread necro.

    Leave a comment:


  • Argonometra
    replied
    I would like helot culture to be detailed further. The mythology of military cultures, fictional or not, is always fascinating.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hand-of-Omega
    replied

    Originally posted by Isator Levi
    Or Sidereals just can't trivially do stuff like that anyway.
    Originally posted by CoSaR View Post
    Plus, even if they could....would they? Remember, not every Sidereal likes the Realm/Bronze, and of those that don't the largest concentration is in the East. Plus, having another Realm likely wouldn't be good, as the two Realms would be at each others throats even more, as unlike before Lookshy!Realm would likely try to be a bit offensive, rather than almost purely defensive. Or they'd be subsumed into the Larger Realm.
    Well, I didn't say *trivially* mold Lookshy's culture and/or religion, Isator...But they DID successfully shape the Shogunate and Immaculate Order into the shape they wanted for hundreds of years and many generations, and the Blessed Isle and associated territories (which were much larger during the Shogunate) is a much larger population than what would become the modern state of Lookshy. So I don't see it as taking THAT much more effort to add Lookshy to the program they already had going.

    CoSaR, good point about the Factions, but remember that the Gold Faction canonically went along with the Bronze as there was no point in doing otherwise until the Solars reappeared, and GF membership started skyrocketing. Leading up to that, the Silver Faction probably had more influence than the Gold...

    We can only speculate what Lookshy would look like with active BF interference, of course. Probably the best case scenario for the BF would be for Lookshy to become another Realm, as they would effectively be a colony, loyally serving the Empress, and a gateway for her conquest of the East, which would have little hope of resisting. As was brought up in the Realm Colonies thread, this would normally lead to Realm-Lookshy rebelling, but as long as Her Redness had the keys to the Grid, they wouldn't dare risk another Tigers situation. Once she disappeared, however, all bets are off...

    All things said, while that could work, I find the current situation more interesting. But the seal keeping the Sids out is actually a good explanation for why things are the way they are now.




    Leave a comment:


  • CoSaR
    replied
    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

    Or Sidereals just can't trivially do stuff like that anyway.
    Plus, even if they could....would they? Remember, not every Sidereal likes the Realm/Bronze, and of those that don't the largest concentration is in the East. Plus, having another Realm likely wouldn't be good, as the two Realms would be at each others throats even more, as unlike before Lookshy!Realm would likely try to be a bit offensive, rather than almost purely defensive. Or they'd be subsumed into the Larger Realm.

    Leave a comment:


  • Isator Levi
    replied
    Originally posted by Hand-of-Omega View Post

    Don't remember when the Sidereal Seal came up, but it does serve a useful purpose in showing just why the Siddies didn't make Lookshy's culture a carbon copy of the Realm's (it also keeps them from sabotaging Lookshy during the wars with the Realm).
    Or Sidereals just can't trivially do stuff like that anyway.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hand-of-Omega
    replied
    Originally posted by Blaque View Post
    As for Lookshy itself:

    I also wouldn't mind seeing more on Lookshy's version of the Immaculate fatih. I always got this kind of Protestant-to-Catholic contrast between Lookshy and the Realm's flavor of the religion. I also think the Order of Chaplains could do to have more fleshing-out. Things like sohei and their socrerer-exorcist methods in contrast with the sorcerer-engineers would be pretty sweet. I honestly always imagined them having a sponsered small Zen garden or something in some cities.

    Less friendly to Anathema. No standing permanent Wyld Hunt doesn't suddenly mean they tolerate the presence of Solars or Lunars in their city.

    Probably no more of that destiny of doom on them and seals agaist Sidereal interference. Was that in 1e at all?

    And stuff.
    Don't remember when the Sidereal Seal came up, but it does serve a useful purpose in showing just why the Siddies didn't make Lookshy's culture a carbon copy of the Realm's (it also keeps them from sabotaging Lookshy during the wars with the Realm). In fact, the Immaculate Faith could well be what the Order would have naturally developed into without the Viziers in control of it!

    I would also like a more in-depth look at the Chaplains; I always saw them as having an Onmyoji-feel...

    On the whole, if the Realm takes inspiration from Imperial Rome/China, then I see Lookshy as being their equivalent of Sparta/Japan. While the Rome is all about excess and debauchery, Lookshy distinguishes itself by virtues of austerity and simplicity, and this shows in their art, architecture, music and dress. They are proud of their military heritage, and every DB House has use for even their non-functioning Dragon Armor, taking a place of honor next to the family shrine.

    One detail I liked in 1E was that the Reaper Daiklave was the signature weapon of Lookshy. That really reinforces a Samurai aesthetic, I feel...I can even see some disaffected Dynasts irritating their elders by adopting Lookshyan dress and speech, at least until actual hostilities begin. Elder Dynasts may also find much to admire about the more restrained, purposeful city-state.

    The emphasis on meritocracy seemed a little too self-consciously egalitarian to me. The Terrestrials in the population *really* consider themselves no better than the mortals they serve with? Maybe the Outcastes who join Lookshy feel that way, but the ones born into it's powerful Gens probably would not.

    When I mentioned Lookshy being "fair", I was mainly thinking of the section where they are shown to deal fairly with Scavenger Lords, paying fair prices for their finds instead of just taking them by force. Of course, you WANT people to keep bringing you things, so it only makes sense to cultivate a reputation for fair dealing. But what about that time the Relic Hunter finds something you desperately need and doesn't want to do business with you...?


    Leave a comment:


  • Locke
    replied
    1st Edition Lookshy is a place I would like to see. Also, please bring back the Infinite weapon!

    Leave a comment:


  • WalrusJones
    replied
    I like how their political system made the cities place on the sliding scale of good-guy, bad-guy made the city an incredibly versatile.


    A story where a mercenary run Lookshy exist fits the "Stay out of our interests, and we will stay out of yours," perfectly. Something to fear, but not to hate. Something that can help you if you can get the right ears pointed in your direction.

    A imperialist party Lookshy fits power fantasy good guy games, and evil empires.

    The purist party is always fun to bring up for court intrigue if anathema characters get too friendly with the local politicians.



    I personally perfer a portrayal a city that is incredibly diverse (Many of the foreign legions of the confederation of rivers choose to become helots,) with heavy Vietnam, United states, and yes, Sparta influences. One in a political age of turmoil, where many from one side or another ague amongst themselves over what direction the nation should take, and where patriotism is at outright dangerous levels.
    - I mean, a nation that makes use of Gunzhosha needs a large base of patriots to continue fielding as many gunzhosha as the books claimed they keep (And replace gradually over every 10 years. Yes. I do like the parts of the Gunzhosha idea where people are accepting tremendous self sacrifice to become more then they ever could have been in an ordinary life.)

    Of course, this means the place needs enough going for it to justify the massive patriotic fervor going on in this place, but it only takes a few dangerous political movements to prevent it from becoming stagnantly good and uninteresting.


    Similarly, some of the conflictions are some of my favorite points to bring up in characters, the inaccuracies in how the word helot is used make it easy to portray it as written, or portray what is written as propaganda, and my favorite character, period, did serve as a indentured servant (Which, I will have you know, lasts for only five years, and you have the legal right to be treated well during this, as written.)

    (He of course, has his own special interpretations of the cultures favorite phrases, especially ones that would conflict with certain cultural values, extending "Every man must earn his justice." To "Every man must earn his justice, but in order to earn anything, one must first have justice. That is why here, in Lookshy, justice is offered to all..... (Extending into a brief the world/this city is half full speech.))

    Of course, such cultural values/cultural saying conflcitions are part of what I love about the city. As it lends itself incredibly well to various characters giving their own interpretations of what the world is, and what it should be in their own way.... Politics, World Views, people who mean well, but cannot agree on what the world should be. The tragedies that can happen when all doesn't go well, be it from politics induced negligence, or a radical group gerrymandering its way into power and pushing out radical changes with little to no checks and balances.



    I hate the idea of this place being written in a way that suggests that there is one true Lookshy, and probably wont use lore that suggests that this should be the case.

    Leave a comment:


  • Blaque
    replied
    As for Lookshy itself:

    I always found the idea of it being kind of the Brotherhood of Steel neat. I think it being still in effect a Shogunate legion that has settled down and setup shop and collected the Realm's worth of an arsenal in one spot is still neat. That said, I do think it wouldn't hurt to point out that the other major asset of Lookshy is that it's the second-largest single society of Dragon-Blooded in Creation and it's concentrated into a single city-state region rather than spread accross a continent and empire. This means that it'll have a very different character to it and is partially feared not just for their weapon stockpile but the fact they have three thousand super soldiers who have the training to use it.

    On the helotry, I kind of am in a mindset that the term helot is just not appropriate for what they are. There's a class of citizens and peasants, but the way Lookshy runs makes me think Roman-style patricians and plebians or Athenian citizens and not-citizens more than it does Spartan citizens and helots. The term just has different connotations in its use anywhere but here and comes off as token exoticism as it is. Lookshy having actual slaves doesn't help this either. I think a basic concept of citizen (Dragon-Blooded and their familes), some term for non-citizen with less baggage and slave fits the place more. Even just peasant fits better I would say.

    Lookshy's political influence interests me a bit. I always saw them running on Cold War US style stuff, wtih funneling funds or troops to conflicts to pick more palettable results, having garrisons and advisors, but extracting really only the retainer cost. It seems like a much more "soft power" method to things than the Realm's empire and feels more like an extortion racket than an exploitation. I wouldn't mind this played-up.

    I also wouldn't mind seeing more on Lookshy's version of the Immaculate fatih. I always got this kind of Protestant-to-Catholic contrast between Lookshy and the Realm's flavor of the religion. I also think the Order of Chaplains could do to have more fleshing-out. Things like sohei and their socrerer-exorcist methods in contrast with the sorcerer-engineers would be pretty sweet. I honestly always imagined them having a sponsered small Zen garden or something in some cities.

    Less friendly to Anathema. No standing permanent Wyld Hunt doesn't suddenly mean they tolerate the presence of Solars or Lunars in their city.

    Probably no more of that destiny of doom on them and seals agaist Sidereal interference. Was that in 1e at all?

    And stuff.

    Leave a comment:

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