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End of the Age: What are Your Theories?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by thedonnie View Post
    The deathlords opt for a new strategy. Rather than a Great Contagion for those of flesh, they go for those of ephemera. They release one that annihilates the various gods. This shatters the world and the end of all life occurs. What they did not count on was the ever-eager eyes of the Fae marching in and reclaiming their world.
    Those who have been safely tucked away (The Yozis and those in Yu-Shan) survived. With nothing around to punish them for breaking their oaths, they strike free and bring about a new Creation, but this time far lesser and far more horrific than thought previously. They set not a pantheon but a Triat to rule over all of it. One of the Solars survived and inherits the mantle of the Unconquered Sun. He is worshiped and called Yahweh by his followers, amongst other names.
    The trouble I see with this scenario is that the previous Great Contagion already killed spirits just as easily as everything else, and it was followed immediately by the Balorian Crusade. The Deathlords might find a super-plague that only kills spirits and still be happy to release it, but they would probably anticipate the Fae moving in afterwards. On the other hand, I don't know that they would mind another Balorian Crusade, if their goal is to destroy Creation.

    What about this: The Deathlords mostly tire of the idea of destroying Creation. A few still want to do this, but the marjority are bored with that goal and now want to conquer Creation instead. This is why they haven't already destroyed the world. So in the Time of Tumult, as the Exalted who should be defending Creation slaughter each other again and again, the Deathlords march over the world and conquer it.

    And then they start fighting each other. The Mask of Winters doesn't want to share it with the Walker in Darkness, who doesn't want to share with the Princess Magnificent, who doesn't want to share with the First and Forsaken Lion, etc. So having wrecked Creation, the forces of the dead start tearing each other apart. Some Deathknights remain loyal to their lieges, but many reach a point where they realize they can strike out on their own and replace the Deathlords. So instead of 13 Princes of the Underworld, it becomes a war between 18, then 30, then 50 or more of them.

    Meanwhile the Celestial and Terrestrial Exalted, being stupid humans, fail to unite against this common threat. They realize they must fight to retake their world, but they still hate each other too. And somewhere in there the Infernals are helping the world burn, destroying the parts they dislike so they can mutilate the rest into a new world more to their liking. They've long since given up on the Yozis as chumps and lousy bosses. The Yozis can't escape their prison, only rage impotently or live vicariously through their Chosen. The Green Sun Princes can become the new Princes of the Earth -- except they aren't inclined to share with each other, either!

    The probably result of all-out Exalted warfare free-for-all is the total disintegration of Creation and a successful Fair Folk invasion. The Yozis scream and curse because damnit, they wanted to conquer Creation, not destroy it! The Infernals flip the bird at them when they try to punish their Chosen, and join the enterprising Solars and Lunars who strike out into the Wyld to carve new personal kingdomes for themselves. Mortals, Exigents, and Dragon-Blooded mostly die out. The Deathlords and Abyssals continue to fight over the Underworld. The Sidereals continue to blame each other and the other Exalted until Yu-Shan caves in on their stupid heads. Rakan Thulio laughs and throws a party, but the Getimians are sort of disappointed that this was what they were fighting for.

    Ugh, that's disheartening.
    Last edited by Erinys; 05-18-2015, 01:50 PM.


    She/Her. I am literal-minded and write literally. If I don't say something explicitly, please never assume I implied it. The only exception is if I try to make a joke.
    My point of view may be different from yours but is equally valid.
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    • #17
      I dunno, Holden mentioned how much he loved those WoD refs, and ISTR he implied some will still slip in even in 3E. But I wonder if they should be CWoD refs, instead of the newer, more current WoD?

      Regardless, my preference is that the WoD/Modern World is the Fifth Age, which is some massive amount of time that doesn't even bear thinking about. The Third Age stands on its own, although scholars argue as to when exactly it begins, but most agree that the official Fall of the Scarlet Empire is as good a starting point as any...

      The Scarlet Dynasty still exists, but due to the ravages of the civil war and satrapy revolutions, it has pretty much lost all control over the Threshold, and has balkanized into distinct Dominions, one run by a coalition of the surviving Great Houses, another by the Immaculate Order and the third by a revolutionary religious movement who holds its DB leaders as the Dragons Reborn. The large islands just off the Blessed Isle are occupied by various Celestial Exalted, waiting for the right moment to invade, while attempting to negotiate with the Realm and each other. Many of the Solars are of the Cult of the Illuminated, which they now have complete control over, and have evolved in different ways; a Schism is inevitable, especially with the branch that has integrated Immaculate teachings within itself.

      In the Underworld, the Deathknights have come into their own, and largely rebelled against their masters. Allying with various other Exalted and raising massive armies of ghosts to their standards, they have already succeeded in dethroning most of the Deathlords, who have been imprisoned, soulforged into mighty Artifacts, or exiled to wander the Labyrinth alone, stewing in their hatred and rage, calling upon their uncaring masters. Most of the victorious Abyssals have come together to form a new government of the dead, operating out of Stygia, where they must balance the needs of their dead followers with those of their living allies. Mostly, they wait to see how the Realm situation ends before they decide how they will relate to the lands of the living...

      While the Ebon Dragon's escape attempt failed, several Yozis were able to use it to slip free. Surprising everyone, they didn't want a repeat of the Primordial War that they had already lost once before, and so they willingly depart Creation, with some few sticking to the edges to forge their own kingdoms from the Wyldlands. Many Solars, Green Sun Princes and Devil Tigers have done the same, shoring up the outer defenses of the world while opening trade of exotic prodigies with the Guild (which has weathered the Time of Tumult reasonably well) and the kingdoms of the Threshold.

      In Yu-Shan, there is a new Unconquered Sun, and he bitterly regrets the mistakes his predecessor made. Sealing off the Games of Divinity, the new King of Heaven sets about cleaning up its corrupt administration with the aid of the Exalted allies who helped him to attain his current role. It will take some time and his full attention, but when it is accomplished, he will turn his eyes back towards Creation, and he will have words about the Mandate of Heaven with those who rule, especially those who bear his name and power, but who are not actually his Chosen...

      This is the Third Age of Creation, within which you will Exalt and blaze your story onto. What legends will they tell of your deeds?

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      • #18
        I'm still looking at things from a 2nd Edition perspective, which might affect things. But to me, the future is completely up for grabs. Solars are movers and shakers of the world. Not only are they back, some of them are twisted in a formerly unknown way; and the Lunars are getting back into the equation a well.

        Hm... I think I will let WoD to be what would have happened, if the plan of the Bronze Faction actually had been allowed to run its full course.

        Just a side note; isn't it "The Time of Tumult", and the "Age of Sorrows" was more or less the reign of the Scarlet Empress?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Lundgren View Post
          I'm still looking at things from a 2nd Edition perspective, which might affect things. But to me, the future is completely up for grabs. Solars are movers and shakers of the world. Not only are they back, some of them are twisted in a formerly unknown way; and the Lunars are getting back into the equation a well.

          Hm... I think I will let WoD to be what would have happened, if the plan of the Bronze Faction actually had been allowed to run its full course.
          This is how I prefer to see things, too. The Vision of Bronze was never a guarantee that the diminished world would survive forever, only that it would last a little longer before coming to resemble the Vision of Darkness. There are still lots of ways the world could go to shit, of course.

          I see the Time of Tumult as either the last gasp of the Age of Sorrows or the first part of the Third Age, or even a brief transition between the two. Historical eras are generally named and categorized with the benefit of several years' hindsight, after the outcome is known.
          Last edited by Erinys; 05-18-2015, 01:58 PM.


          She/Her. I am literal-minded and write literally. If I don't say something explicitly, please never assume I implied it. The only exception is if I try to make a joke.
          My point of view may be different from yours but is equally valid.
          Exalted-cWoD-ArM url mega-library. Exalted name-generators, Exalted and WTA stuff from me and others.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Erinys View Post
            With the influence of the Wyld so weakened, other shinmaic forces -- the Wyrm and Weaver, to simplify and anthropomorphize them
            My personally route for arriving at the Weaver has always been "imagine if someone spent some time smashing up the Loom of Fate real good with a baseball bat, then killed all the Pattern Spiders except for Ansa, who they merely lobotomize and cripple. Then they just let that whole mess keep running."

            Originally posted by TalosX
            I don't draw any correlations between Exalted and the World of Darkness, because they're not the same universe.
            Originally posted by Gaius
            I can't speak for 1e, but so far as the second and third editions go, the "Creation turns into the World of Darkness" is definitely not a given.
            They're not the same universe anymore. A number of us can speak for 1e, and the connection was incredibly explicit. The back of every hardback began with the blurb "Before there was a World of Darkness, there was an Age of savage adventure." The introduction of the 1e Core straight-up explains that this is the distant past of the WoD, and that it is all going to go wrong at some point. The 1e Core itself is filled with WoD terminology and references. The 1e Sidereals hardback makes it incredibly explicit that the Sidereals forsee a dark future in which they've become the Mages and are trying like hell to prevent that. The Underworld has so many Wraith tie-ins it isn't even funny.

            Having said all that...

            Even in 1e, Grabowski and the other devs were fairly adamant that they would never NOT do something because it contradicted WoD canon or cosmology. The rationale was that this is taking place in the dim prehistory of the WoD, which every major faction in the WoD has a different view of, and the Sundering and a lot of other giant cosmological catastrophes are coming down the pike aimed square at Creation and you can use those to justify any inconsistency you care to.

            It's not an either-or proposition. "Oh noes, the connection is going to make the devs do it wrong or tie their hands!" is a notion that is farcical at best.


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            • #21
              Originally posted by Erinys View Post
              I see the Time of Tumult as either the last gasp of the Age of Sorrows or the first part of the Third Age, or even a brief transition between the two. Historical eras are generally named and categorized with the benefit of several years' hindsight, after the outcome is known.
              Most likely, all those three alternatives is probably used, and fought over by academics. For an Exalted example; how some count the Second Age from the Ursurpation, while others only count it from the Great Contagion.

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              • #22
                Let's be real, the purpose of all those 1e blurbs was nothing more noble than product marketing. WoD was easily the flagship line of WW and the only way Exalted, as the new kid on the block, was going to have a chance of selling (and not being relegated to niche/cult status like Aberrant) was to convince WoD players to buy Exalted products. Hence the tie-in: this is the secret ancient prehistory to the WoD. Specifically, the Old WoD, that thing that effectively has been dead for years except for 20th Anniversary updates (which, I'll add, are wildly popular, and for very good reason).

                With Exalted no longer piggybacking on WoD players for popularity as it needed to in 1e, and having stood on its own since before 1e ended (2e explicitly didn't need that marketing to be successful), I think the whole thing can and should just get laid to rest.

                But, like, let's not pretend that there needs to be anything deeper or more in-setting than "we want this new product line to sell because we are a for-profit corporation and the best way to do that is to entice existing WW consumers" as the primary reason for the tie-in.
                Last edited by Zelbinnean; 05-18-2015, 02:42 PM.


                "Chicanery-No: If a player uses this Charm in an abusive or exploitative manner, the ST may punch him right in the goddamn face." --TheDementedOne

                "Happiness is very brittle and short-lived in the Exalted community, because ressentiment is our cultural touchstone." --Gayo

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                • #23
                  Mage also had references back to Exalted. It was not just marketing, quite a few writers liked the idea*. There's no need for fans of the idea to stop talking about it just because some other Exalted fans don't enjoy it. Like, if you don't find the idea fun, you don't have to join the conversation.

                  *The marketing to WoD fans was totally a thing as well, of course. That's what seduced pulled me in.

                  Originally posted by Murcushio View Post
                  My personally route for arriving at the Weaver has always been "imagine if someone spent some time smashing up the Loom of Fate real good with a baseball bat, then killed all the Pattern Spiders except for Ansa, who they merely lobotomize and cripple. Then they just let that whole mess keep running."
                  LOL that would explain some of the craziness. But I see Asna as Queen Ananasa, so somebody (Getimians?) probably beat her up and stuffed her in the Opal Prison. The 1E Storyteller's Companion, I think it was, depicted the Weaver as a force pre-dating the Sundering that overreacted to "a near-victory of the Wyld."

                  The Exalted keep killing each other, bunging up Creation and neglecting its defense until the Balorian Crusade 2.0 shatters civilization and most of reality, and breaks the unbreakable Exaltations. Then the Weaver (the greatest aspect of Nirakara the Mask) rips reality in half to build a ridiculous giant wall between Shape and Wyld. The Wyrm (the greatest aspect of Dharma) gets pissed off, etc.
                  Last edited by Erinys; 05-18-2015, 10:30 PM.


                  She/Her. I am literal-minded and write literally. If I don't say something explicitly, please never assume I implied it. The only exception is if I try to make a joke.
                  My point of view may be different from yours but is equally valid.
                  Exalted-cWoD-ArM url mega-library. Exalted name-generators, Exalted and WTA stuff from me and others.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Hand-of-Omega View Post
                    I dunno, Holden mentioned how much he loved those WoD refs, and ISTR he implied some will still slip in even in 3E. But I wonder if they should be CWoD refs, instead of the newer, more current WoD?
                    Classic. Absolutely. Classic is superior to nWoD in just about every way except mechanically, and its cosmology and themes and history mesh "backwards" onto Exalted much better than its successor. It was also much more popular.

                    (Disclaimer: I stormed out of nWoD in a huff when they got rid of the Technocracy and never looked back.)


                    "SEX NOVA is the kind of person who, after being chosen as the divine champion of the god of heroes, decided to call himself SEX NOVA."

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                    • #25
                      I imagine we'll be getting some classic WoD references and some new WoD references. I mean shit, Liminals are basically just a giant Promethean reference right there.

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                      • #26
                        I think what happens is....the camera will begin panning to the side to an English gentleman sitting at desk, and he say "And now for something completely different."
                        Last edited by vampire hunter D; 05-18-2015, 03:17 PM.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post
                          I imagine we'll be getting some classic WoD references and some new WoD references. I mean shit, Liminals are basically just a giant Promethean reference right there.
                          I don't doubt we'll also get some things that appear to be references that are entirely coincidental, like the Dark Mother of the Liminal Exalted and the Dark Mother of Beast.


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                          • #28
                            Whatever happens we have Warhammer: The End Times as a glowing example of what not to do.


                            I’ve left the sinking ship and moved to Sword of Creation, thank you to everyone who helped made the Exalted community these past few years.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Murcushio View Post

                              Classic. Absolutely. Classic is superior to nWoD in just about every way except mechanically, and its cosmology and themes and history mesh "backwards" onto Exalted much better than its successor. It was also much more popular.

                              (Disclaimer: I stormed out of nWoD in a huff when they got rid of the Technocracy and never looked back.)
                              Yeah, I largely agree, with the following caveats:

                              -I much prefer NWoD Vampire to OWoD, even if the loss of an obvious opponent faction can be frustrating when I'm Storytelling
                              -Promethean is pretty cool!
                              -NWoD Mummy is fuckin' amazing period the end
                              -Both versions of Demon are dope!

                              That said:
                              -NWoD Werewolf I cannot get into, being a total OWoD Werewolf grognard
                              -NWoD Mage lost me with Atlantis. no.

                              Does NWoD even have as much of a cosmology beyond the God-Machine?


                              "Chicanery-No: If a player uses this Charm in an abusive or exploitative manner, the ST may punch him right in the goddamn face." --TheDementedOne

                              "Happiness is very brittle and short-lived in the Exalted community, because ressentiment is our cultural touchstone." --Gayo

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Lioness View Post
                                Whatever happens we have Warhammer: The End Times as a glowing example of what not to do.
                                Welp. Time for me to do some research.

                                And the first link off Google is 1d4chan.org. This is gonna be good.


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