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  • Quite a few places in Creation have land vehicles propelled by sails. Ice boats in the North and sand skimmers in the South are canonical (or, at least, were in 2e), but I'd add single-person sailing chariots and multi-person sailing wagons in the East. Such vessels are really only effective on relatively long, smooth stretches of ground, though Creation has invented relatively effective suspension systems for them, so every little bump doesn't risk pitching driver or passengers out. In areas where such transport is relatively common, roads are sometimes laid out in a zigzag course relative to the prevailing wind direction. That allows a skilled driver to against the wind direction by tacking.

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    • It's far easier to transform a sickly human into a strong one than to give a human stone skin and wings.

      In other words, terrestrial 1 can give more favoured abilities, better memories. Or ambidexterity. But only terrestrial 2 can give bone claws, wings, or night vision.

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      • Originally posted by Accelerator View Post
        In other words, terrestrial 1 can give more favoured abilities, better memories.
        Why spend your XP and (bare minimum!) a week of your time on giving someone Ability dots, when you can just train them like a person for 0 XP?

        (Also mortals don't get Favored Abilities in Ex3, and even if they did, the distinction is largely meaningless on NPCs since they don't use XP.)
        Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 07-08-2019, 03:24 PM.

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        • The Empress isn't gone, she's been there the whole time. It's just that a sorcerous working went catastrophically wrong and made her permanently immaterial and undetectable by magic, thus making her incapable of interacting with the world. Countless people have passed right by her and even through her searching for her, to her great annoyance and rage.

          She has given up on being found for now and has devolved into a cynical spectator who watches her Empire slowly crumble due to her absence. She takes mental notes on which of her children are causing the most damage and devotes part of her free time to devising new and creative ways she might punish them on the day she returns.

          Her curse will only be lifted on the day a Solar with Eye of the Unconquered Sun happens to look in her general direction, as it is the only form of scrying powerful enough to find her.

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          • Originally posted by Epitome View Post
            The Empress isn't gone, she's been there the whole time. It's just that a sorcerous working went catastrophically wrong and made her permanently immaterial and undetectable by magic, thus making her incapable of interacting with the world. Countless people have passed right by her and even through her searching for her, to her great annoyance and rage.

            She has given up on being found for now and has devolved into a cynical spectator who watches her Empire slowly crumble due to her absence. She takes mental notes on which of her children are causing the most damage and devotes part of her free time to devising new and creative ways she might punish them on the day she returns.

            Her curse will only be lifted on the day a Solar with Eye of the Unconquered Sun happens to look in her general direction, as it is the only form of scrying powerful enough to find her.

            What prevents immaterial spirits from seeing her?

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            • Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
              Why spend your XP and (bare minimum!) a week of your time on giving someone Ability dots, when you can just train them like a person for 0 XP?

              (Also mortals don't get Favored Abilities in Ex3, and even if they did, the distinction is largely meaningless on NPCs since they don't use XP.)
              Eh, a meaningless piece of fluff. I want it to be so that a sorcerer can easily do things like 'can lift my weak body' or 'give me fertility'. Small, easy for a mortal mage. Good for tiny stories

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              • Originally posted by Uknown DarkLord View Post


                What prevents immaterial spirits from seeing her?
                The same working. It's really more of a funny what-if than a serious theory, so you can just hand wave any inconsistencies you find as an extra effect of the working.

                She wanted perfect invisibility at will. She got the first half right.

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                • We need a sperate thread just for Empress theories


                  Actually, didn't we have one?

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                  • Before Camp 17 was established, the fell was a mighty pinewood forest. Filled with might wood spirits and wood based elementals; along with terrestrial gods of various animals. There were also some tribes of humans who had not fallen into one of the various solar kingdoms. While Ondar Shambal, Wallport/Pneuma and other surrounding nations had limited logging rights, the forest itself was more the province of a couple of lunars, who sought to protect the vast Northern forest; where the Lunar's main base of operations was the city Everliving Grove, which stood above gate 32.

                    When the Usurpation hit, the Everliving Grove was one of the first casualties in creation in the hunt for Anathema. Rather than seek and fight the Lunar rulers in city in the trees, the Shugunate and Sidereal allies immediately toppled the trees. The Lunars took what beastmen would follow and fled to the fringes of Creation.

                    Those that remained fought against the Shogunate. Which is why Camp 17 was decided to be there. To Dragonbloods like Anjei Marama, it was just a death camp to put to death the servitors of the Anathema. To the Sidereals, Camp 17 was the capstone camp of all the death camps. It was a message to the various terrestrial courts of the change of regime, and what would befall if they didn't fall in line.

                    In large part it was a bluff. A bluff that mostly worked, because the terrestrial courts had no idea for the most part what was happening in Yu-Shan and how busy the Sidereals were in trying to clean up after the Usurpation.

                    To the denizens of the forest, particularly various elementals such as woodspiders, they only paid lip service. They had prospered well with the protection of the Lunars who were forced to flee, and resented their ouster. As such, many elementals and spirits risked helping various prisoners try to escape from camp 17. Some managed to escape, some didn't. Anjei Marama and her lieutenants knew the prisoners were receiving help, so they expanded the camp. They used sorcery en mass to enslave the various elementals to turn them against their own kind and their own homes and rapidly cut down hundreds upon hundreds of acres of forest, forcing the independent populations to rapidly flee further and further away from camp 17. That didn't stop them from trying to rescue prisoners. Just made it more difficult.

                    Over the course of time they managed to save at least 1-2 members of each beastman and other servitor race, and 5 of the Kyzvoi by the time the camp closed, having help from the various ghosts who began to manifest in the shadowlands. While outright belligerent to the Shogunate and Dragonblooded, the ghosts, especially Thrice Dread Achiba, sought to help the forest dwellers and elementals, because of the aid they tried to give to those who did survive. It led to various ancestor cults, in particular for Achiba in the start of his. To this day the elemental court in that area has friendly relations with the gangs of ghosts. They don't quite understand the ghostly gang warfare, and do not get involved in their conflicts.

                    When the contagion came, the ghostly gangs took the humanoid and elementals peoples in, bringing them into the underworld in hopes of survival. Oddly enough, it worked. Because the Great Contagion did not spread into the underworld to affect the living there.

                    And when the contagion ended and the Balorian Crusade began, the gangs of ghosts fought beside elementals and terrestrial spirits against some of the lieutenants of Balor. Of course, due to the proximity of the shadowland and fighting against the wyld, many spirits and elementals have taken on a mutation that makes them sickly looking, able to respire essence in shadowlands and the underworld and made them into creatures of darkness.

                    To the rest of creation and Heaven, they see a blight upon the lands. They see violent ghosts. They know nothing of the history and the amiable relationship of spirits there.

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                    • The Immaculate Faith's promises of a higher reincarnation for pious people aren't completely false. The Sidereals who helped develop it, and later promote it as the official faith of the Realm, made certain arrangements. This was motivated both by pragmatism (people with memories of past lives aren't common, but they do happen just enough that setting up something totally contradictory to the way the system actually works would have been hard to support), and by simple morality - at least some of them thought that it wasn't right to promise people some kind of reward without making some kind of effort to actually deliver. Of course, this is hardly as guaranteed as the Immaculate Faith suggests, and, of course, it's not mediated by cosmic morality at all.

                      From time to time (annually in more-frequented areas, less often elsewhere), Immaculate monks visiting a community will select the person they judge to be the most pious, obedient, and overall best-adhering to the tenets of the Faith, and perform a ritual of recognition of this. This ritual was actually designed by the Sidereals, and it does have an effect: it leaves a mark on the recipient's soul, which, after their death, can be read by the gods in charge of the cycle of reincarnation. Someone with enough of these marks gets noted for a special reward. The Loom of Fate is used to bind their soul into a reasonably positive destiny, mostly ensuring that the soul will have a pleasant life when they're born.

                      Of course, the system is far from perfect, or assured. Souls need a minimum number of recognitions to even be considered by the reincarnation gods, and as the Celestial Bureaucracy grows more corrupt and indolent, those gods take less and less interest, meaning it takes more recognitions to draw their attention. Then, of course, corruption in the system can interfere as well. Gods have been known to interfere with the system on behalf of particularly devout or otherwise-favored worshipers of their own, supplanting souls who are "supposed" to be rewarded. And even if a soul does get given a positive destiny, such things aren't guaranteed - destinies can go awry, and sometimes, the Bureau of Fate changes its mind on what a destiny is supposed to be, too. In any case, the Sidereals who set the system up didn't really prioritize being reborn as notably higher-status people. There's certainly no particular effort made to put souls in bodies with good odds of Exalting as a Dragon-Blood, for example. The people setting it up generally assumed that what people really wanted was nice, comfortable, stable lives without too much hassle, and that's the sort of life they give out.

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                      • The oldest and truest of all headcanni:

                        The Games of Divinity is reality itself and the actions of the gods akin to players of Civilization or any other strategy boardgame.


                        ..."But I've bought a big bat, I'm all ready you see. Now my troubles are going to have troubles with me"

                        Message me for Japanese translations.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
                          Of course, the system is far from perfect, or assured. Souls need a minimum number of recognitions to even be considered by the reincarnation gods
                          And presuming Taru-Han still does her soul collecting in 3E, then those marks might just attract her notice to put them in her collection.

                          Originally posted by Sorcerous Overlord View Post
                          The Games of Divinity is reality itself and the actions of the gods akin to players of Civilization or any other strategy boardgame.
                          Kinda don't like this. Cause it means the player characters have no free will, or anyone for that matter. And implies if you stop playing the games that Creation stops. It also takes everything that has been said about TUS and makes his withdrawal from Creation, as he focuses on keeping it going. Rather than an addiction or other explanation.
                          Last edited by Uknown DarkLord; 07-12-2019, 08:35 AM.

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                          • Originally posted by Sorcerous Overlord View Post
                            The oldest and truest of all headcanni:

                            The Games of Divinity is reality itself and the actions of the gods akin to players of Civilization or any other strategy boardgame.
                            I prefer the exact opposite.

                            Creation powers the Games and what happens in Creation is reflected in the Games, but those playing the Games have basically no impact on Creation. Indeed, their moves are predetermined by what happens in Creation (which is why the Maidens are content sharing a turn because they recognise that they are bound by fate in all things). For the Primordials, the Games were a chance to switch off and veg out (like reality television), but gods literally exist in order to oversee Creation and the Games allow perfect oversight of Creation -- the Incarna are addicted because the Games fulfill their basic function, whilst an Exalt would be as capable of playing and walking away as a Primordial would be.

                            Which is why the Primordials invited Iggy D to play in the first place, they knew that if he "played" a turn then he would be hopelessly enthralled and unable to effect Creation. What they didn't expect was for Creation to reveal through the Games that the gods were right, and as the Sun shone down on Yu Shen, the Primordials knew that every aspect of what they created from the least mote of dust to the greatest god no longer belonged to them, and it was that revelation which broke Theion. Not that he was "out played", for the Games are more like a cutscene or an AI vs AI video game, but that the nature of the world reflected the gods and their Exalted on a fundemental level. He was king in name only. So he yielded, expecting fair treatment.

                            Nothing the Incarna do in the Games affects Creation in any (meaningful) way. They are afforded no agency even within the Games, their "moves" moving them like puppets to Creation's tune. It is not the case that as Iggy D moves the Daystar onto the board of the Games, the sun rises over Creation. Rather, as the sun rises the Games force Sol Invictus to pick up the Daystar piece and move it on to the board. No matter how much you shout at Jerry Springer through your TV set, you can't change what's happening in front of you.

                            I even like the idea that The Unconquered Sun thinks he's visiting all his Chosen personally, because he's talking to their game pieces -- but only his Zeniths (and a rare few others) are connected enough to hear what are basically his prayers to them, whispered into their tokens in the Games.
                            Last edited by JohnDoe244; 07-12-2019, 05:10 PM.


                            Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

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                            • Excellent post JohnDoe244, however, I'm a noted Primordial apologist so I disagree with the stuff about Sunny D being right and Theion admitting failure.


                              ..."But I've bought a big bat, I'm all ready you see. Now my troubles are going to have troubles with me"

                              Message me for Japanese translations.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Sorcerous Overlord View Post
                                Excellent post JohnDoe244, however, I'm a noted Primordial apologist so I disagree with the stuff about Sunny D being right and Theion admitting failure.
                                Well if you view it as the gods existing to steward Creation, then Games reflecting the Essence of the gods who lived within Creation more precisely than the Primordial creators makes sense, right?

                                The type of people who appear on Jerry Springer are not the type of people who created Jerry Springer. And judging your worth as a person by how alike you are to the folks on Jerry Springer is probably not the best standard. (No offense to anyone who's been on the Jerry Springer show.)

                                That the Games of Divinity thinks Creation belongs to the Unconquered Sun is not a value judgement against the Primordial King. And because the gods are so bound by fate, they're naturally better at the Games (just as some people are naturally better at watching reality television).

                                Theion swore his surrender oath. He either admitted failure because he was beaten (canon) or because he failed (my head canon). As a Primordial apologist myself, I prefer that The Is is responsible for his own downfall, rather than being beaten by Iggy D. YMMV.
                                Last edited by JohnDoe244; 07-13-2019, 05:25 AM.


                                Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

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