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  • Originally posted by Accelerator View Post
    But everyone in those days uses iron.
    That's the very point. Iron, once production became possible, became a relatively common commodity whose value was in bulk, while rarer and more decorous silver then became further associated with wealth and luxury. It acquired a symbolic value that outweighed the practical virtues.
    Last edited by Greyman; 08-29-2017, 09:12 AM.

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    • Originally posted by Greyman View Post
      That's the very point. Iron, once production became possible, became a relatively common commodity whose value was in bulk, while rarer and more decorous silver then became further associated with wealth and luxury. It acquired a symbolic value that outweighed the practical virtues.
      Iron (much like pretty much everything else we take for granted) in premodern conditions is very, very, VERY difficult to produce. That drives the value up, even if it is common, relatively speaking.

      And, to be honest, it wasn't that common. The 'average' Viking Era farmstead rarely had more than 100lbs of iron goods: tools, weapons, and cooking equipment.

      http://www.hurstwic.org/history/arti...t/bog_iron.htm

      A straight sword, Resources 2, was valued in the Icelandic Sagas at a half-mark of gold. That is equal to 16 milk cows, and one milk-cow could make or break a farmstead.

      http://www.hurstwic.org/history/arti...king_sword.htm

      EDIT:

      here are some videos showing the entire ironworking process, from gathering the ore, to smelting, to refining, to forging. And, it skips out the step of fuel-making, which is a long, drawn-out process in and of itself. Charcoal was another valuable trade-good.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuCnZClWwpQ

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3rjjpuhCLI


      Last edited by Boston123; 08-29-2017, 05:24 PM.

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      • Originally posted by Boston123 View Post
        A straight sword, Resources 2, was valued in the Icelandic Sagas at a half-mark of gold. That is equal to 16 milk cows, and one milk-cow could make or break a farmstead.
        Oh, if you mean that work intensive forged-iron goods like swords are worth their weight in silver, that's a far more credible claim and I have no complaint, with the caveat that the exchange would fluctuate wildly even over relatively small distances. I thought you were talking about ingots.


        A Clutch of Dragons: Hub Thread, Presence, Resistance, Ride, Sail, Socialize Stealth, Survival, Thrown, War, First Draft pdf<NEW

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        • The Sword that is meant to be the gift of a King isn't what I would use as a standard price of a Sword... clearly not all straight Swords in Iceland were worth 16 milk cows.


          It is a time for great deeds!

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          • Call it rap, call it flyting, whatever, the most popular form of glorification among the First Age Solars was essentially poetry battles with extensive dances to shame his enemies.


            I did a lot of homebrew over here. PEACH.

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            • This is a pretty rough headcanon can I've only recently started developing it, but celestial elements/elementals exist, in the same way that autochthonian elements/elementals exist and orichalcum, moon silver, and star metal are the magical materials that represent them in the same way that jade represents the five that are native to Gaia, with the celestial elements being native to the celestial bodies that represent the purview of sol, Luna, and the maidens respectively, and although they are not comon in creation, huge veins of those mm ore run through those celestial bodies in the same way jade runs through creation.


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              • All gods can assume forms dealing with their purview. A feild god can disguise itself as a local farmer, for instance.
                For more powerful gods, more forms are available to hide in. However, they cannot assume the appearance of a specific farmer, prince, or what have you. THey appear as a generic actor, relying on the imperfect perception of people in creation to hide them.
                A god of a city thus might chose to appear as a wealthy merchant of the city, and given his extensive knowledge could pose as an inattentive memeber of the court without much difficulty. However, the name he gives will not be found on any documents until after the fact if at all.


                I did a lot of homebrew over here. PEACH.

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                • I just had an idea for the Ebon Dragon's Fetich Soul. Or at least one of them.

                  She is a girl, about 18 years of age, beautiful, with hair and eyes that shift in colour as you look at her, wearing bright clothes that were neither hid nor flaunted. Her smile is demure and sincere, and she has a cheerful, friendly attitude. She is kind and sweet, and always has time for you and always polite. She never gets angry, cruel, nor petty. She is, all in all, a wonderful person. You like her. You love her. You always wish to stay by her side.

                  One day, as you and her was having tea, a band of monsters break in, break her limbs, and then torture and defile her, and then leave, cackling and laughing.

                  You are aghast in horror and disgust. Who could hurt such a wonderful person? Who could hurt such an innocent? Who could be so cruel and so pointlessly malicious? Who could do such a terrible thing-

                  Oh wait.

                  The Ebon Dragon is such an asshole, he has a specific soul to seduce you and make you fall in love with her, just so he can torture her in front of you.

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                  • I don't think that's how demons work.

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                    • Originally posted by Elfive View Post
                      I don't think that's how demons work.
                      Hmm.... true.

                      Forgot it then.

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                      • It's not a complete dumpster fire, a Primordial having a fetich soul at odds with its nature that it likes to torture is plausible the but lets humour the notion.

                        If Ebon Dragon's Fetich is Alegzɑ̃dra, The Fridge and the Girl Stuffed into It she's going to be a really powerful demon who'll spend most of her time trapped in Malfeas where beings who'd be indifferent to the suffering of a beautiful innocent aren't that uncommon and the rest of the time in Creation where the Ebon Dragon can't really touch her.

                        If you wanted to explore that you'd be better off exploring what that kind of relationship does to someone. Even if Alegzɑ̃dra accepts a cycle of people falling in love with her before it all ends in misery it's likely she's quietly radiating the horror of her existence through her 2nd circle souls.

                        A less one trick pony interpretation of the Ebon Dragon could be that rather than being exclusively brutalised by her oversoul as part of some long running sick joke she's doomed by her very nature like a dying-and-rising goddess whose not tied to any particular measure of time other than 'shit happens'.

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                        • Originally posted by Accelerator View Post
                          I just had an idea for the Ebon Dragon's Fetich Soul. Or at least one of them.
                          Your headcanon is, of course, your own. I can't tell you that it's wrong. However, I think using sexual assault in this way, as basically just a show of how cacklingly Evil the Ebon Dragon is, is both unpleasant and unoriginal, for multiple reasons.

                          First, sexual assault is way overused to begin with. It's the go-to thing to have happen to women to signify "something bad happened". It gets used far more often in this role compared to all the other unpleasant things that could happen to women. Using it this way contributes to the general narrative surrounding sexual assault as something "defiling" or "impure", by suggesting that it's the worst thing that can happen to a woman. So that's both unpleasant and unoriginal, wrapped up in a neat package.

                          Second, portraying the Ebon Dragon as basically Exalted Satan, a being of pure capital-E Evil, is heavily overdone. 2e went there quite heavily, and frankly, it wasn't a good direction. In my opinion, at least, the Ebon Dragon mentioned in 1e's Games of Divinity, the one who honestly loves lost causes and things doomed to failure, and is a bit more complicated than just "he wants to oppose everything good", is a much more interesting character.

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                          • Originally posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post

                            Your headcanon is, of course, your own. I can't tell you that it's wrong. However, I think using sexual assault in this way, as basically just a show of how cacklingly Evil the Ebon Dragon is, is both unpleasant and unoriginal, for multiple reasons.

                            First, sexual assault is way overused to begin with. It's the go-to thing to have happen to women to signify &quot;something bad happened&quot;. It gets used far more often in this role compared to all the other unpleasant things that could happen to women. Using it this way contributes to the general narrative surrounding sexual assault as something &quot;defiling&quot; or &quot;impure&quot;, by suggesting that it's the worst thing that can happen to a woman. So that's both unpleasant and unoriginal, wrapped up in a neat package.

                            Second, portraying the Ebon Dragon as basically Exalted Satan, a being of pure capital-E Evil, is heavily overdone. 2e went there quite heavily, and frankly, it wasn't a good direction. In my opinion, at least, the Ebon Dragon mentioned in 1e's Games of Divinity, the one who honestly loves lost causes and things doomed to failure, and is a bit more complicated than just &quot;he wants to oppose everything good&quot;, is a much more interesting character.
                            Huh. Maybe. Do as you wish.

                            But isn't the ebon dragon your nemesis?

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                            • Originally posted by Accelerator View Post
                              Huh. Maybe. Do as you wish.
                              This is a strange response to give to someone calling out your cavalier use of sexual assault as a story element.

                              Originally posted by Accelerator View Post
                              But isn't the ebon dragon your nemesis?
                              Hell, no. Xol's nemesis is Ragara Soras Jor, the satrap of An-Teng.

                              Shichirou's nemesis was Dancing Shadow, the only Abyssal to beat him in a fight. (Stupid Void Avatar Prana, grumble grumble.)

                              And as for the players in my Okeanos game, only the Storm King had a nemesis, and it was the Frog Queen.
                              Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 10-18-2017, 10:45 PM.

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                              • Originally posted by Accelerator View Post

                                But isn't the ebon dragon your nemesis?
                                I don't know if that "everybody's nemesis" bit was in 1e, or a 2e innovation. In any case, though, being "everyone's nemesis" doesn't necessarily translate to "cacklingly evil". If the Ebon Dragon is being nemesis to Malfeas right now, he'd presumably be a soft-spoken, reasonable individual who tries to get everyone to accept his points through reasoned discourse and accepts that everyone has an equal right to self-determination. If he's nemesising (it's a word!) a loyalist Abyssal, he probably wants everyone to live a full life, not suffer at all, and not leave a ghost when they die.

                                Personally, I don't much like the "everybody's nemesis" element of the Ebon Dragon anyway. It's a bit too easy to make it devolve into ridiculousness, and for him to be incoherent as a character with motivations. How does he decide who to be nemesis to anyway? Is it random? Does he actually pick based on some personal criteria? In the first case, he just randomly shuffles through motivations, and in the second, he actually isn't simply everyone's nemesis, since he's acting on specific motivations that don't have to do with opposing anybody.

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