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  • Crumplepunch
    started a topic Your Headcanon

    Your Headcanon

    Tell me about your headcanon.
    Last edited by Crumplepunch; 10-21-2015, 07:48 AM.

  • Lioness
    replied
    Originally posted by habitableexoplanet View Post
    It also just amuses me if the historically most powerful Ability is one of the ones that translates least well into fun and powerful gameplay.
    Mostly because to have enough organisational pull to shape society you'd need to have already satisfied criteria some games would consider victory conditions.

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  • habitableexoplanet
    replied
    Originally posted by Chausse View Post

    We don't know because we don't really have a playbook for First Age Lunar.

    I respect your head canon personally, I find cool that you prefer putting forth Bureaucratic guys that can put order in growing societies in the golden age of humanity, but I think it's important to keep in mind the Charms you read are thought for a game happening right now, in the Age of Sorrow, and not for The First Age.

    That's why for example I disagreed with you saying "The greatest feats of the First Age Lunars was putting societies in order and not fighting Behemoths". From what I understood (or it has just become an head canon in my head at this point I can't even remember), Creation was possibly 10 times bigger at its apex. I can't even imagine the Exalted conquering all this land, during or after the Primordial War, without big adventures and Behemoth fighting and Evil Ancient societies venerating former primordials and etc ...

    I completely agree that there were big adventures, and Behemoth fighting, and battles against human foes. The heroism displayed in these battles was more epic and dramatic than anything yet seen in the Age of Sorrows, itself more epic than anything in our own fallen world. But I think the dream of the First Age calls upon us to imagine a world where, despite the fact that Solars and Lunars could and did slay behemoths with their bare hands, the deeds of bureaucrats in organizing and leading ordinary, peaceful people displayed even more grandeur and heroism.

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  • Chausse
    replied
    Originally posted by habitableexoplanet View Post

    I wasn't referring mainly to the Charms to dismantle and destabilize empires, but rather the Charms that support and stabilize societies. I agree that we can't conclude that Lunars could do X in the First Age just because they do X in the Age of Sorrows, but I think it's reasonable to believe they were doing these things for other reasons.



    I think charms like Tabbo-Enforcing Beast and Divine Monster Judgment reflect the Lunar's First Age themes.


    We don't know because we don't really have a playbook for First Age Lunar.

    I respect your head canon personally, I find cool that you prefer putting forth Bureaucratic guys that can put order in growing societies in the golden age of humanity, but I think it's important to keep in mind the Charms you read are thought for a game happening right now, in the Age of Sorrow, and not for The First Age.

    That's why for example I disagreed with you saying "The greatest feats of the First Age Lunars was putting societies in order and not fighting Behemoths". From what I understood (or it has just become an head canon in my head at this point I can't even remember), Creation was possibly 10 times bigger at its apex. I can't even imagine the Exalted conquering all this land, during or after the Primordial War, without big adventures and Behemoth fighting and Evil Ancient societies venerating former primordials and etc ...

    Leave a comment:


  • habitableexoplanet
    replied
    Originally posted by Chausse View Post

    I would totally disagree personally.

    The Charms reflect the themes of the Exalted you are playing in published game. DB has a ton of Charms to do stuff with your family and stuff because a core theme of DB games in the conventional setting is "Do stuff with your family and stuff". Lunars have Charms to dismantle and destabilize impressive empires from the inside/outside because it's one of their strategies of warfare against The Realm you can play in the conventional setting.

    In the First Age, where the themes would certainly have been different, I'd expect each of the different Exalted to have a different set of Charms.
    I wasn't referring mainly to the Charms to dismantle and destabilize empires, but rather the Charms that support and stabilize societies. I agree that we can't conclude that Lunars could do X in the First Age just because they do X in the Age of Sorrows, but I think it's reasonable to believe they were doing these things for other reasons.

    Originally posted by 3E Core
    [COLOR=rgb(0.000000%, 0.000000%, 3.900000%)]Though never forsaking the divine monstrosity at their Essence’s heart, they became guardians, guides, world-walkers, judges, and mystics.
    ....
    [/COLOR]
    [COLOR=rgb(0.000000%, 0.000000%, 3.900000%)]Thus, for much of the First Age, the Lunars and the Solars were inextricably intertwined, twin aspects of the Old Realm’s glories. [/COLOR]


    I think charms like Tabbo-Enforcing Beast and Divine Monster Judgment reflect the Lunar's First Age themes.



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  • Chausse
    replied
    Originally posted by habitableexoplanet View Post

    Sure, that's a good point. I only mentioned the DB's because there are so many of them that they can form a significant component of a bureaucracy, instead of a leader or an influence on it.

    I guess I would say, by the same logic, that the greatest feats of the Lunars of the First Age were via these Charms (specifically, after the Bond was developed, the positive ones more than the negative ones), and not fighting Behemoths. One could even suggest that the ever-adaptable Lunars had more powers of this form when they were at the center of massive empires, instead of at the fringes (or leading smaller groups), as they are now.
    I would totally disagree personally.

    The Charms reflect the themes of the Exalted you are playing in published game. DB has a ton of Charms to do stuff with your family and stuff because a core theme of DB games in the conventional setting is "Do stuff with your family and stuff". Lunars have Charms to dismantle and destabilize impressive empires from the inside/outside because it's one of their strategies of warfare against The Realm you can play in the conventional setting.

    In the First Age, where the themes would certainly have been different, I'd expect each of the different Exalted to have a different set of Charms.

    Leave a comment:


  • habitableexoplanet
    replied
    Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
    Sure - you failed to mention Lunars in any capacity. I'd argue that there's nearly as much influence to be had on the shape of an organization - from a Lunar acting from outside a bureaucracy - as there is for a Solar acting from inside it. A Lunar can suppress an organization's ties and principles, or lock people into their culture's taboos; she can strengthen their cultural convictions with a speech, or sow discord in their ranks; she can grant its people extra resolve to protect their culture, or specialize herself in their weakness; she can raise up heroes to strengthen a group, or she can spread fear through the group like wildfire.

    ​They deserve at least as much mention in the context of First Age bureaucracies as you gave the Dragon-Blooded.
    Sure, that's a good point. I only mentioned the DB's because there are so many of them that they can form a significant component of a bureaucracy, instead of a leader or an influence on it.

    I guess I would say, by the same logic, that the greatest feats of the Lunars of the First Age were via these Charms (specifically, after the Bond was developed, the positive ones more than the negative ones), and not fighting Behemoths. One could even suggest that the ever-adaptable Lunars had more powers of this form when they were at the center of massive empires, instead of at the fringes (or leading smaller groups), as they are now.

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  • TheCountAlucard
    replied
    Originally posted by habitableexoplanet View Post
    Can you expand on this? I've looked at some of the relevant Lunar charms but I don't see how they could conflict with what I said.
    Sure - you failed to mention Lunars in any capacity. I'd argue that there's nearly as much influence to be had on the shape of an organization - from a Lunar acting from outside a bureaucracy - as there is for a Solar acting from inside it. A Lunar can suppress an organization's ties and principles, or lock people into their culture's taboos; she can strengthen their cultural convictions with a speech, or sow discord in their ranks; she can grant its people extra resolve to protect their culture, or specialize herself in their weakness; she can raise up heroes to strengthen a group, or she can spread fear through the group like wildfire.

    ​They deserve at least as much mention in the context of First Age bureaucracies as you gave the Dragon-Blooded.
    Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 03-25-2020, 10:08 AM.

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  • habitableexoplanet
    replied
    Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
    I suggest you take a look at what Lunars can do now, before you get too solid a picture in your head about what a First Age bureaucracy might have looked like.

    Can you expand on this? I've looked at some of the relevant Lunar charms but I don't see how they could conflict with what I said.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheCountAlucard
    replied
    I suggest you take a look at what Lunars can do now, before you get too solid a picture in your head about what a First Age bureaucracy might have looked like.

    Leave a comment:


  • habitableexoplanet
    replied
    Originally posted by Uknown DarkLord View Post


    Are you talking the deliberative? Or are you talking about spectacular mazes of beauracratic red tape they could make?
    Not really either. I'm thinking of Bureaucracy as it regards making a large organization you manage run effectively and honestly. Just as there were Solars building wondrous high-tech artifacts, there were Solars building wondrous organizations consisting of mortals and DBs, that functioned like the governmental and business organizations we now have running our high-tech society - managing natural resources, constructing and maintaining infrastructure, enforcing rules, providing public services - except that, at the height of the First Age, they were exceptionally efficient, competent, and ethical. These First Age organizations would make the bureaucracy of Switzerland look like the bureaucracy of Switzerland makes most other countries' bureaucracy look, just as Solar Martial Artists are as far beyond our earth's top Martial Artists as they are beyond me.

    The reason I think these are most important is that I think, in the real world, organization and culture are a more fundamental component of a prosperous and happy society than technology, and, in Exalted, the actions of the Exalted are more important than their tools, and the actions of large groups of ordinary people are more significant than the Exalted.

    It also just amuses me if the historically most powerful Ability is one of the ones that translates least well into fun and powerful gameplay.

    Leave a comment:


  • Uknown DarkLord
    replied
    Originally posted by habitableexoplanet View Post
    The greatest feats of the solars of the First Age did not fall under the Abilities of Craft, or Occult, or War, but rather Bureaucracy.

    Are you talking the deliberative? Or are you talking about spectacular mazes of beauracratic red tape they could make?

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  • habitableexoplanet
    replied
    The greatest feats of the solars of the First Age did not fall under the Abilities of Craft, or Occult, or War, but rather Bureaucracy.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheCountAlucard
    replied
    Purple was actually one of the more expensive colors to achieve historically (hence why royalty wore it so much); I'm not sure of how well putting blue dye on red-striped sails would work.

    ​(Looking into it some more, the process of dyeing something purple involved harvesting about nine thousand snails native to one specific region in the world.)
    Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 03-20-2020, 08:27 PM.

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  • Kelly Pedersen
    replied
    Ships of the Realm traditionally have sails with stripes of two different alternating colors - one stripe is always black, representing, of course, black jade and water. The other color is set by longstanding tradition, and only sages and loremasters in these ignorant days connect those colors to the Maidens of Fate. Warships have red stripes, and the stripes are vertical. Ships meant to travel far, or any primarily involved in merchant work, are striped horizontally in yellow. Pleasure craft and other ships that belong to private citizens and have no other obvious colors are diagonally striped in blue. And funerary ships and those carrying messages of tragedy and failure have vertical stripes in purple. Traditionally, if a warship or a fleet lost a battle, it would use cheap blue dye to change its red stripes into purple.

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