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  • Crumplepunch
    started a topic Your Headcanon

    Your Headcanon

    Tell me about your headcanon.
    Last edited by Crumplepunch; 10-21-2015, 07:48 AM.

  • nalak42
    replied
    My personal favorite explanation for how gods work is that even those who've managed to study them as a species don't get them because so often you have gods that just seem to ignore rules set down by another.

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  • Uknown DarkLord
    replied
    After Uka the Boar lead his Grondir boarmen to defeat and fled into battle, the remaining boarmen joined with other beastmen tribe survivors who survived Camp 17. They serve as a friendly mercenary force to serve any of the ghostly beastman gangs. They will only fight artificial created races like the Kyzvoi; they won't fight other beastmen. They've also established an ancestor cult led by Boarman ghosts who fought side by side with Uka. They all harbor resent towards Uka and by extension, other lunars. Uka faced defeat and fled. And never once did he or another Lunar inquire about them. They were abandoned, and have had to face survival all on their own. And are united with the other beastmen as they share Lunar abandonment in common.

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  • Uknown DarkLord
    replied
    Originally posted by Kleptomania View Post

    I don't know what either of those things are like. My first view explicitly wasn't 'the Incarnae are messing with you as a proxy war', but more like an abstract seasonal or astrological influence, such that the lead in the Games effects more than just the skies of Yu-Shan.
    I dunno. If MoEP: Infernals is to believed, the Games of Divinity were thought of and Creation seems to be the battery and buffer against the absolute wyld. If the Wyld is "timeless, formless perfection" (CoCD: The wyld), then it seems the Games of Divinity are the most stable thing there. The most real, or absolute thing.

    So I don't think Creation is affected by the Games at all. I think the Games are affected by Creation. If we take entries like, "Once the Games of Divinity began, Adrián focused all of her attention on them and on the world-machine that powered them" from Infernals literally, then it seems that everything in Creation was to help the Games run. That's why they never cared about the gods or any of the mortals. They were all just 1's and 0's to them in the operation of the GoD.

    So here is my headcanon on what the Games of Divinity are. They're essentially the Mirror of Erised combined with a reality engine. The Primordials sought the ultimate reflection of reality, something that could not be undone by a whim in the deep Wyld. And so when they played the Games of Divinity, they were essentially seeing the essence of themselves. They saw the true reality of themselves. They saw the games as the ultimate escape from the mundane wyld, and perhaps unsaid between themselves, it was maybe a way to transcend further.

    For lesser beings, it's a reflection of their domain and sense of sense. For example, The Unconquered Sun views himself as unconquerable, and views the games as something to "win". Something to conquer. As such, the games reflect that. The Unconquered Sun can no more beat or conquer the Games of Divinity than he could beat or conquer himself. The Maiden of Secrets might know, but when they play the GoD, they aren't playing against each other, but they are playing against themselves.

    And what most view as "being ahead in the games" when the skies of Yu-Shan reflect who "is in the lead" with the games, it's actually a reflection of who the GoD are mirroring or reflecting.

    It is also why most entities go mad when they see a turn at the games. Because they see the truth of reality and it breaks them.

    Although if Nara-O's one subcommander god who claims to know the true name of the wyld were to enter, he would heal from his malady and probably become an incarnae himself.

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  • Kleptomania
    replied
    Originally posted by Blaque View Post

    It never has been like the boardgame in the original Attack of the Titans or novels like the Malazan or Dandelion Trilogy in part since while it's something nice, it's also like...one of the oldest fantasy cliches in the book. It also lets the Incarna more or less be doing their hting in retirement and not secretly messing with you as some sort of proxy war in their game in a way that also is kind of a long standing cliche.
    I don't know what either of those things are like. My first view explicitly wasn't 'the Incarnae are messing with you as a proxy war', but more like an abstract seasonal or astrological influence, such that the lead in the Games effects more than just the skies of Yu-Shan.

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  • Uknown DarkLord
    replied
    Shifting away.

    At the time of the Great Contagion some human cultures survived because of the ancestral cults, particularly in Sijan. It's not that worshiping the dead saved them from the plague, but rather the ancestors who were worshiped had a hunch that it would be safer in the Underworld than in Creation for a mortal due to the pandemic. And so those ancestor cults unassociated with the Deathlords convinced their worshipers to enter the underworld, which saved them from the Great Contagion. As that that was never designed to cross the borders into the Underworld.

    Of course, having saved their adherents only served to increase their worship.

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  • Blaque
    replied
    Originally posted by Kleptomania View Post
    I'm kind of divided on the topic of the Games of Divinity.

    Part of me likes the idea that they do have an impact on Creation, but it's not really in a 'humans are literally pieces' manner and more like a 'numinous tidal influence that echoes through the Loom of Fate' sort of way. Mars in the lead heralds a time of conflict, Luna in the lead precedes a time of change, etc. If this is the case, then the Games probably influence astrology, too.

    I also like the idea that the Games have no influence on Creation whatsoever, but are nonetheless something more than merely pleasurable. I like to think of them somewhat transcendent - something that seems eminently more real than Creation itself. In this case, playing the Games is more like a meditative exercise of a sort.
    It never has been like the boardgame in the original Attack of the Titans or novels like the Malazan or Dandelion Trilogy in part since while it's something nice, it's also like...one of the oldest fantasy cliches in the book. It also lets the Incarna more or less be doing their hting in retirement and not secretly messing with you as some sort of proxy war in their game in a way that also is kind of a long standing cliche.

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  • Uknown DarkLord
    replied
    Question. Did the Primordials create the Games of Divinity? Cause I almost sort of wonder if the Games of Divinity isn't actually a Primordial itself, that no one else realizes is a Primordial.

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  • Kleptomania
    replied
    I'm kind of divided on the topic of the Games of Divinity.

    Part of me likes the idea that they do have an impact on Creation, but it's not really in a 'humans are literally pieces' manner and more like a 'numinous tidal influence that echoes through the Loom of Fate' sort of way. Mars in the lead heralds a time of conflict, Luna in the lead precedes a time of change, etc. If this is the case, then the Games probably influence astrology, too.

    I also like the idea that the Games have no influence on Creation whatsoever, but are nonetheless something more than merely pleasurable. I like to think of them somewhat transcendent - something that seems eminently more real than Creation itself. In this case, playing the Games is more like a meditative exercise of a sort.

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  • JohnDoe244
    replied
    Originally posted by Sorcerous Overlord View Post
    Excellent post JohnDoe244, however, I'm a noted Primordial apologist so I disagree with the stuff about Sunny D being right and Theion admitting failure.
    Well if you view it as the gods existing to steward Creation, then Games reflecting the Essence of the gods who lived within Creation more precisely than the Primordial creators makes sense, right?

    The type of people who appear on Jerry Springer are not the type of people who created Jerry Springer. And judging your worth as a person by how alike you are to the folks on Jerry Springer is probably not the best standard. (No offense to anyone who's been on the Jerry Springer show.)

    That the Games of Divinity thinks Creation belongs to the Unconquered Sun is not a value judgement against the Primordial King. And because the gods are so bound by fate, they're naturally better at the Games (just as some people are naturally better at watching reality television).

    Theion swore his surrender oath. He either admitted failure because he was beaten (canon) or because he failed (my head canon). As a Primordial apologist myself, I prefer that The Is is responsible for his own downfall, rather than being beaten by Iggy D. YMMV.
    Last edited by JohnDoe244; 07-13-2019, 05:25 AM.

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  • Sorcerous Overlord
    replied
    Excellent post JohnDoe244, however, I'm a noted Primordial apologist so I disagree with the stuff about Sunny D being right and Theion admitting failure.

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  • JohnDoe244
    replied
    Originally posted by Sorcerous Overlord View Post
    The oldest and truest of all headcanni:

    The Games of Divinity is reality itself and the actions of the gods akin to players of Civilization or any other strategy boardgame.
    I prefer the exact opposite.

    Creation powers the Games and what happens in Creation is reflected in the Games, but those playing the Games have basically no impact on Creation. Indeed, their moves are predetermined by what happens in Creation (which is why the Maidens are content sharing a turn because they recognise that they are bound by fate in all things). For the Primordials, the Games were a chance to switch off and veg out (like reality television), but gods literally exist in order to oversee Creation and the Games allow perfect oversight of Creation -- the Incarna are addicted because the Games fulfill their basic function, whilst an Exalt would be as capable of playing and walking away as a Primordial would be.

    Which is why the Primordials invited Iggy D to play in the first place, they knew that if he "played" a turn then he would be hopelessly enthralled and unable to effect Creation. What they didn't expect was for Creation to reveal through the Games that the gods were right, and as the Sun shone down on Yu Shen, the Primordials knew that every aspect of what they created from the least mote of dust to the greatest god no longer belonged to them, and it was that revelation which broke Theion. Not that he was "out played", for the Games are more like a cutscene or an AI vs AI video game, but that the nature of the world reflected the gods and their Exalted on a fundemental level. He was king in name only. So he yielded, expecting fair treatment.

    Nothing the Incarna do in the Games affects Creation in any (meaningful) way. They are afforded no agency even within the Games, their "moves" moving them like puppets to Creation's tune. It is not the case that as Iggy D moves the Daystar onto the board of the Games, the sun rises over Creation. Rather, as the sun rises the Games force Sol Invictus to pick up the Daystar piece and move it on to the board. No matter how much you shout at Jerry Springer through your TV set, you can't change what's happening in front of you.

    I even like the idea that The Unconquered Sun thinks he's visiting all his Chosen personally, because he's talking to their game pieces -- but only his Zeniths (and a rare few others) are connected enough to hear what are basically his prayers to them, whispered into their tokens in the Games.
    Last edited by JohnDoe244; 07-12-2019, 05:10 PM.

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  • Uknown DarkLord
    replied
    Originally posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
    Of course, the system is far from perfect, or assured. Souls need a minimum number of recognitions to even be considered by the reincarnation gods
    And presuming Taru-Han still does her soul collecting in 3E, then those marks might just attract her notice to put them in her collection.

    Originally posted by Sorcerous Overlord View Post
    The Games of Divinity is reality itself and the actions of the gods akin to players of Civilization or any other strategy boardgame.
    Kinda don't like this. Cause it means the player characters have no free will, or anyone for that matter. And implies if you stop playing the games that Creation stops. It also takes everything that has been said about TUS and makes his withdrawal from Creation, as he focuses on keeping it going. Rather than an addiction or other explanation.
    Last edited by Uknown DarkLord; 07-12-2019, 08:35 AM.

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  • Sorcerous Overlord
    replied
    The oldest and truest of all headcanni:

    The Games of Divinity is reality itself and the actions of the gods akin to players of Civilization or any other strategy boardgame.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kelly Pedersen
    replied
    The Immaculate Faith's promises of a higher reincarnation for pious people aren't completely false. The Sidereals who helped develop it, and later promote it as the official faith of the Realm, made certain arrangements. This was motivated both by pragmatism (people with memories of past lives aren't common, but they do happen just enough that setting up something totally contradictory to the way the system actually works would have been hard to support), and by simple morality - at least some of them thought that it wasn't right to promise people some kind of reward without making some kind of effort to actually deliver. Of course, this is hardly as guaranteed as the Immaculate Faith suggests, and, of course, it's not mediated by cosmic morality at all.

    From time to time (annually in more-frequented areas, less often elsewhere), Immaculate monks visiting a community will select the person they judge to be the most pious, obedient, and overall best-adhering to the tenets of the Faith, and perform a ritual of recognition of this. This ritual was actually designed by the Sidereals, and it does have an effect: it leaves a mark on the recipient's soul, which, after their death, can be read by the gods in charge of the cycle of reincarnation. Someone with enough of these marks gets noted for a special reward. The Loom of Fate is used to bind their soul into a reasonably positive destiny, mostly ensuring that the soul will have a pleasant life when they're born.

    Of course, the system is far from perfect, or assured. Souls need a minimum number of recognitions to even be considered by the reincarnation gods, and as the Celestial Bureaucracy grows more corrupt and indolent, those gods take less and less interest, meaning it takes more recognitions to draw their attention. Then, of course, corruption in the system can interfere as well. Gods have been known to interfere with the system on behalf of particularly devout or otherwise-favored worshipers of their own, supplanting souls who are "supposed" to be rewarded. And even if a soul does get given a positive destiny, such things aren't guaranteed - destinies can go awry, and sometimes, the Bureau of Fate changes its mind on what a destiny is supposed to be, too. In any case, the Sidereals who set the system up didn't really prioritize being reborn as notably higher-status people. There's certainly no particular effort made to put souls in bodies with good odds of Exalting as a Dragon-Blood, for example. The people setting it up generally assumed that what people really wanted was nice, comfortable, stable lives without too much hassle, and that's the sort of life they give out.

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